Something I agree with Europe on.

[WildGunsTomcat]

http://youtu.be/7BF2pKDFcmk

Here in the US, we spend more money on prisoners than we do students at colleges. Per capita, we build 4 times more prisons than universities in this country.

Why? Marijuana.

Watch the video. It's disgusting.

[Warborn]

Well, a lot of places in Europe still have marijuana as illegal. In Canada we came close to decriminalizing marijuana, but we were actually leaned on pretty heavily by the US. Then the financial shit happened, our Conservative shithead party won power, and now marijuana laws are harsher and we're building new prisons to house all the new criminals we've created despite crime up till this point being the lowest it's been in decades.

Anyway, yeah, private prisons in the US give a very powerful lobby create harsher laws so as to make more criminals. And the lawmakers can sell themselves as being "tough on crime", and people who don't know any better eat it up.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Baneblade]

Marijuana is a waste of our time and resources. It being illegal creates far mor severe and numerous problems than it solves.

[Warborn]

Look at the four of us all agreeing on something.

Also, interesting that in the video is says California spends $50k on a given prisoner per year. In Canada, the opposition to our recently passed crime bill, Bill C-10, which makes mandatory minimum sentencing for marijuana crimes among other issues, the figure of $100k per prisoner per year was given.

Our currencies aren't that different in value, and yet we spend around twice as much per prisoner. That is an interesting disparity. Better food? More guards per prisoner? More services? I wonder what the difference is.

[Baneblade]

I dont even spend that much on myself lol.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Sgt Shultz]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Other drugs that are far more dangerous of course should remain controlled substances for public safety.

I think the US could follow the Dutch model for even the harder drugs, and prostitution. I wouldn't want to limit it to just marijuana, because I think we should not criminalize what is basically victimless commerce.

[Warborn]

Portugal decriminalized possession/use of every drug, although transport of more than 5 days worth is illegal, and the "penalty" for using is voluntary counseling/rehab. They're doing pretty well.

I think, as the video says, treating drug users as addicts rather than criminals is the way to go, whether it's hard drugs like heroin or softer drugs like marijuana. Putting someone who does heroin behind bars is just stupid.

Originally Posted by Malorn

Other drugs that are far more dangerous of course should remain controlled substances for public safety.

This doesn't seem like a libertarian point of view. I know Ron Paul is in favour of legal marijuana, but it seemed like making all drugs legal and allowing the market to turn them into a commodity is consistent with libertarian principles.

[Hamma]

Something we can all agree on! Mark this date on the calendar.

[WildGunsTomcat]

Holy crap you're right Warborn, the planets have aligned.

We have harmony in this thread.

Speaking of decriminalizing things...I think prostitution should be legalized too. We should definitely follow Amsterdam's lead on drugs and prostitution...we might have a safer and more harmonious society.

But, this is where I greatly disagree with the religious right.

I was going to have this glorious exposition and explain my viewpoint...but I literally just had a brain fart and the point I was going to make went out the window. I just woke up.

It'll come back to me. Carry on.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Baneblade]

I'm a Confederal Libertarian, which I just coined.

Basically I'm for ultra limited government (basically only military and the most basic social programs) where the biggest concentrations are at the municiple, county, and state levels.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Figment]

See? You love us dutch really.

We be introducing passes though because of too much succes: foreigners come over en mass, giving problems as they either use it with alcohol, use too much because they are only here for a short time or do not read the instructions. (some accidents and suïcides occured amongst drug tourists in relation to mushrooms and bad trips).

Then there is drug trafficking in communities near the Belgian border in particular. Criminals - typically aiming for the French market - buy in soft drugs and cause a lot of nuisances to the locals and border police. Drugs in France are a relatively big business.

But strangely, almost all foreign friends I have from strict legislation have used marihuana. But far less dutch friends do or even have, even if it is easier to get.

The only big drugs problem here right now that is not primarily down to foreign users/trafficers is party drugs like XTC. Note, hard drugs are still illegal. However, if you are going to legalise soft drugs, make sure it is legal around you as well, or you get foreign/inter-State crime. Kind of like the 30s Between Canada and the US regarding liquor. Laws being the same in different bordering nations and states makes smuggling unattractive and means police and customs can spend time on other, more important things.