Something I agree with Europe on.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Sounds similar to the Minarchism or Paleolibertarianism schools.

Yeah, I can see the resemblance.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by WildGunsTomcat

Speaking of decriminalizing things...I think prostitution should be legalized too. We should definitely follow Amsterdam's lead on drugs and prostitution...we might have a safer and more harmonious society.

In Ontario, where I live, we had a big court case where some prostitutes challenged the legality of criminalizing prostitution, saying that it forces women who work as prostitutes to do so under conditions which are unsafe and degrading (which is against the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms). The unanimous court decision sided with the prostitutes, striking down prohibition on prostitution, although it'll be about a year before the law comes into effect. At that time, bordellos will be legal in Ontario.

This is something I actually had a very interesting conversation about recently. Ultimately, it's a good decision. Like prohibition on drugs, all that prohibition on prostitution does is empower criminal elements and put people hurting no people through their consensual sex-having into jail. Meanwhile, if a John does get violent with a hooker, the hooker can't count on law enforcement to help them.

In the end, it's absolutely one of those things that is purely a dumb "moral" law without any practical end -- something I can't abide. People will fuck for dollars whether it's legal or not. Making it safer for those involved and taxing it like any other business is simply the only real answer. It also frees up law enforcement from busting people for this shit and lets them focus on actual crimes (like smoking weed, lawl).

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Alcohol, and Marijuana are rather mild drugs, but they can be misused and cause harm to others (drunk driving, for example). One could easily argue it is government's job to protect citizens from each other and therefore must deal with the issue of drunk driving. I subscribe to this belief.

Well, there's a problem here. Alcohol really isn't mild. It's actually fairly addictive and fairly dangerous. Prohibiting drugs which are dangerous to the user and those around them makes sense if you include the prohibition of alcohol. Which, I suspect, you won't, because you watch Boardwalk Empire or are familiar with the huge rise in organized crime that the Volstead Act precipitated in your country on account of those Temperance League busy-bodies.

So how do we say that the prohibition of cocaine or heroin differs? Certainly they're more addictive, but is splitting hairs over degrees of danger the baseline for legislating against one drug but not the other? How much harm/addictiveness to a person is enough to justify the existence of cartels and other organized crime groups, the massive prison populations that drug use being criminalized requires, and the police forces required to enforce drug laws?

Meanwhile, what's the gain? People still do cocaine and heroin. Prohibition doesn't end use. It makes acquisition more difficult, but how much of an impact does that really have? If you knew you could go down to the store tomorrow and buy heroin, would you? Would any of us? In the case of Portugal, the answer is "no". Making use of these sorts of drugs legal did not seem to increase the rate of use amongst people. But, it did reduce crime, infection rates for blood-borne pathogens commonly associated with needle sharing, and so on.

Seems to me that the mandate to save people from themselves in the case of drugs actually causes much more harm than good.

[CutterJohn]

Any prohibition that cannot be maintained does more harm than good. People are still going to want it, and someone is going to be willing to supply them with it.

How many decades of prohibition? I could make 3 phone calls and get some meth. 1 for pot.


All prohibition does is encourage people to break the law. Users will break it by purchasing it, and will routinely have contact with people who regularly break the law to provide these products, who have zero incentive to maintain a good product or good relations, who cannot rely on the government or police to protect their interests and as such must protect it themselves.

[Quovatis]

Small steps first. Legalizing pot will save the government tons of money in enforcement and prison population. I certainly agree with that. I'd never personally use it, though.

[CutterJohn]

I would. Its not bad. Nice change of pace from alcohol. Does stink though.

[Warborn]

It's way more benign than alcohol. It's weird that we have a culture which puts alcohol way up on a pedestal of an awesome drug that awesome dudes totally drink and then meet hot chicks, whereas marijuana is the devil-weed that filthy hippies and burnouts partake of.

[WildGunsTomcat]

Originally Posted by Warborn

It's way more benign than alcohol. It's weird that we have a culture which puts alcohol way up on a pedestal of an awesome drug that awesome dudes totally drink and then meet hot chicks, whereas marijuana is the devil-weed that filthy hippies and burnouts partake of.

When I smoke weed....and I do....

I get, as Kat Williams puts it, hungry...happy...sleepy.

I don't get in a car and drive like a fucking fool...I don't get violent.

I just sit and talk to my friends about old Star Trek episodes...watch Adult Swim...and eat pizza.

Weed is dangerous to no man...and the scientific data is out there that supports that it might actually fight off cancer.

Example: I got drunk one night and felt up my best friend's wife in front of him and my own wife.

Alcohol = TROUBLE.

Example: I got high one night and was hungry at 3am and came up with a fucking business plan for a 24/7 food truck that serves ONLY BREAKFAST all night long. Like a rolling Waffle House.

Weed = GENIUS.

I rest my case.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Natir]

Originally Posted by WildGunsTomcat

When I smoke weed....and I do....

I get, as Kat Williams puts it, hungry...happy...sleepy.

I don't get in a car and drive like a fucking fool...I don't get violent.

I just sit and talk to my friends about old Star Trek episodes...watch Adult Swim...and eat pizza.

Weed is dangerous to no man...and the scientific data is out there that supports that it might actually fight off cancer.

Example: I got drunk one night and felt up my best friend's wife in front of him and my own wife.

Alcohol = TROUBLE.

Example: I got high one night and was hungry at 3am and came up with a fucking business plan for a 24/7 food truck that serves ONLY BREAKFAST all night long. Like a rolling Waffle House.

Weed = GENIUS.

I rest my case.

If someone drinking alcohol gets violent, they have a problem and should see a doctor. If when you get drunk and you have an urge to drive, you are either an idiot and/or you have shitty friends. Again, your own bad choices.

You felt up your best friend's wife in front of him and your own wife? Well, it is clearly you want to her and not your own wife, alcohol made you a bit more stupid and you indulged on your fantasies. Alcohol and pot have their own characteristics but it affects each person differently. I can say I have been drunk, in fact wasted, and not felt violent or wanted to drive drunk.

People get drunk and at 3am walk to the nearby coney island and eat food, that is called college. If you get drunk and do stupid shit, that is your own fault and should not be generalized with an entire population. One person may not be able to control them-self because they drank way too much than what their body can handle. Their fault, they should know their limit or curb their intake until they do.

You clearly seem to be someone who cannot control them-self under the influence.

[WildGunsTomcat]

Originally Posted by Natir

If someone drinking alcohol gets violent, they have a problem and should see a doctor. If when you get drunk and you have an urge to drive, you are either an idiot and/or you have shitty friends. Again, your own bad choices.

You felt up your best friend's wife in front of him and your own wife? Well, it is clearly you want to her and not your own wife, alcohol made you a bit more stupid and you indulged on your fantasies. Alcohol and pot have their own characteristics but it affects each person differently. I can say I have been drunk, in fact wasted, and not felt violent or wanted to drive drunk.

People get drunk and at 3am walk to the nearby coney island and eat food, that is called college. If you get drunk and do stupid shit, that is your own fault and should not be generalized with an entire population. One person may not be able to control them-self because they drank way too much than what their body can handle. Their fault, they should know their limit or curb their intake until they do.

You clearly seem to be someone who cannot control them-self under the influence.

Wow.

You are clearly someone who reads something and jumps to fucking conclusions.

I said those were EXAMPLES. I didn't ever do any of that shit.

What I was saying is Alcohol is way worse for you than weed. This has NEVER been contested by anyone.

And no Malorn, I'm saying that when you're high you don't have the motivation to get behind the wheel and drive. You have zero motivation to do shit but stare at the carpet and giggle.

[ItsTheSheppy]

In my experience its very difficult to find anyone who isn't running for public office who truly sees marijuana as a terrible drug that needs to be illegal, whereas booze is a-okay. It just doesn't brain.

[Warborn]

Baby boomers. The older generation right now is why things are as fucked up as they are. They're the ones who vote the most consistently, and they're the ones who grew up in a world where the only stuff they know is what shitheads in their vicinity told them. So, they tend to be racists, homophobes, bigots in general, capitalism is great and amazing and perfect and SOCIALISM is evil (especially when the government threatents their medicare with socialism) and of course, think weed is evil stuff that only hippies smoke.

For these people, weed is illegal and will be for years to come. Until the money and the votes aren't concentrated in the hands of this ignorant fucks, politicians will guffaw at the idea of legalizing/decriminalizing weed whether they're Obama or Romney-bot or anyone else in the US, except that crazy old man Ron Paul I suppose.

[Vecha]

Originally Posted by Natir

You clearly seem to be someone who cannot control them-self under the influence.

I personally have never done anything "stupid" while drunk...however there has been study after study that shows how alcohol lowers inhibitions.

I've personally haven't read any studies that shows pot/weed/mary jane lowering inhibitions...so I'll admit I might be ignorant on the subject.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Having smoked weed a couple times in the past, I will say that alcohol is by far more dangerous. It's not even a contest. It's like asking what's sharper, a knife or an overripe melon?