NC MAX's Sheild ability

[SandTrout]

[Doppler]

"The highest obligation and privilege of citizenship is that of bearing arms for one's country."

Hey Hammer, for those of us who live in a democracy actualy its voting.

If your going to quote at least do it right and quote the source.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Doppler
Med Assault: Tie. While the gauss has an advantage in damage dealt the cycler beats it in accuracy (lack of bloom) and clip size. A lot of this goes either way personaly i loot cyclers whenever I can because of their ability to circle strafe like nobodies business something gaus users just dont have the clim size to waste ammo on anything but artisticly taken shots.

Agreed on the tie. More often than not this will come down to the better player. I've been absolutely destroyed by a good Gauss user before, it's a humbling experience. I've fought one on one with enough Gauss users to know when somebody is just more skilled than I am.

Antivehicular:Clearly TR the striker is the most versatile and highest damage over time AV weapon in the game period. Only the vanu even come close and god forbid they actualy have to aim to get their AV kills. Oh and if your pissed off about us being behind walls, Well no shit were defenseless outherwise our minds off guiding that rocket at it's target and those things dont exactly turn on a dime.

Agreed again. The Striker has it's faults (like the fact that for some reason it's easier to lock on a MAX than it is to lock onto a Vanguard an equal distance away) but I think it's the best of the AV.

Max's:Clearly tr the lockdown ability blows the shield out of the water and not to mention the pounders ability to hit people (multiple i might add) around corners. Yes the sparrow is a good max but no better then the burster the reason you all hate the burster so much is your so used to the cycler and the striker that you cant figure out how to lead your target.

TR has better AI and AV. The Sparrow owns the Burster. Leading the target is easy enough, the Sparrow is still a useful MAX against infantry which the Burster is not. The Sparrow is also better at AA. If you argue with this then you'd have to be arguing that the Lancer is better AV than the Striker, as the Lancer does better damage, doesn't give a lock on message and only needs to lead the target. You've already said that you think the Striker is better than the Lancer, so obviously that's not how you feel. You're using a flawed double standard to try and make a point.

Pistols: Ill throw this in. IMHO the tr repeater is the only worthy sidearm in the game, if i'm at a close enough range to use my scatterpistol i might as well use my knife. The beamer however makes an excellent cigarete lighter that wont go out in the wind and draws on the same ammo as your lasher.

I agree again, although it's more of a personal preference. I prefer the Repeater but I don't think you can necessarily call it better than the Scatterpistol.

HA: Ah heres the kicker yes the JH is better indoors where about 75 percent of the fighting occurs, but anything wider then a hallway or a cc a MCG will own due to it's clipsize high ROF and ability to circle strafe.

You already admit the JH owns indoors where most of the fighting takes place. Don't try to soften the blow by talking about situations in which the MCG is superior. As I already mentioned, in those situations the Cycler is already the equal to the MCG and therefore you're better off putting 4 cert points elsewhere.

I'm not going to compare tanks because quite frankly i hate vehicles other then my sund and once in a great while my gal.

It's best not to include tanks since the Vanguard is greatly preferred by the player base over the Prowler. If you had to admit another area in which NC was superior it might make it look as if the balance was actually pretty good. I have no issues with having the worst of the HA, it's all part of the trade.

[Doppler]

Madcow i find it funny as all hell how you can agree with most of my points and then when it comes down to HA the one clear advantage of NC when I point out that your weapon still has uses and was better then say, the prebuff lasher in 90% of all cases you want to go all "Oh were the persecuted tr"

As to your comments about the burster max versus the sparrow I bring up two factors.

1) There are not enough sparrows in the game to equal the advantages tr posses across the other MAX's this was a discussion about the NC max shield ability once upon a time.

2) The sparrow MAX is passable on infantry but sucks balls on vehicles, the burster sucks against close arange infantry (it kills them just fine at distance) but tears up vehicles. Also if your engaging close range infantry your taking splash damage with the sparrow so it's not a great plan especialy since youll be doing more damage to yourself then to them thanks to the anti armor rounds.

It's best not to include tanks since the Vanguard is greatly preferred by the player base over the Prowler

Ok lets read through my post again and see that it was all written from my personal experience, now that we've done that can we conclude that i dont give a shit compared to what the playerbase thinks. Thankyou.

But hey since you have the advantage in almost everything else lets compare the tanks shall we.

NC TANK:Only tank in the game where only one weapon system can be active at a time, so god forbid it have the biggest main gun in the game, holy god.

TR PROWLER: Highest DOT for a tank in the game but TR whould rather bitch about how it's main gun wont kill in one shot. Nevermind that they get off 1.87 shots in the time it takes the Van to fire once, never mind that the real damage on the prowler comes from the stupid chain gun.

If you want a vehicle that kills in one dead on shot your marauder works like a champ.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Doppler
Madcow i find it funny as all hell how you can agree with most of my points and then when it comes down to HA the one clear advantage of NC when I point out that your weapon still has uses and was better then say, the prebuff lasher in 90% of all cases you want to go all "Oh were the persecuted tr"

And I find it funny as hell that you can read my whole post and actually say that I'm claiming we're persecuted. I know this comes as a shock to the other empires, but I'm being pretty objective in my assessment. Yes, HA is better for the other two empires than for the TR. That's fact. No, that's not an issue. It's not persecution. That's what I've said all along. I'm not sure how I could make this any clearer for you.

In regards to your Sparrow argument, again let me bring up the Lancer. You claim that the Lancer is not as good as the Striker because:
Striker has a lock.
Then you claim that the Burster is just as good as the Sparrow, but that TR just suck because they can't lead. You totally ignore the fact that the Sparrow is the Striker of MAXs. It has an aircraft lock, it does good infantry damage, it does poor vehicle damage. Is the AA MAX supposed to destroy vehicles? Did I miss a memo? If the reason the Burster is equal to the Sparrow but not used as widely is the fact that TR can't lead, the only reason that the Lancer is not superior to the Striker is that VS can't shoot apparently. Lancer gives no lock-on message, does more damage per shot and fires faster than the Striker. I personally think the Striker is superior to the Lancer, but being objective also then admit that the Sparrow is superior to the Burster. You don't get to have it both ways.

Ok lets read through my post again and see that it was all written from my personal experience, now that we've done that can we conclude that i dont give a shit compared to what the playerbase thinks. Thankyou.

Rebel! What the player base thinks is important, because the base gaming instinct is to gravitate towards the most powerful weapons. While some may be happy turning invisible with a piddly pistol, most won't be happy until they're killing as efficiently as possible. Cert percentages support nearly every argument you've made so far (TR has highest AV, TR has highest AI/AV MAX usage) but when they no longer support your argument (massive HA differential, AA MAX differential) then you don't give a shit and it's useless. Convenient.

But hey since you have the advantage in almost everything else lets compare the tanks shall we.

Oh, that's right. I'm the one being persecuted.

NC TANK:Only tank in the game where only one weapon system can be active at a time, so god forbid it have the biggest main gun in the game, holy god.

TR PROWLER: Highest DOT for a tank in the game but TR whould rather bitch about how it's main gun wont kill in one shot. Nevermind that they get off 1.87 shots in the time it takes the Van to fire once, never mind that the real damage on the prowler comes from the stupid chain gun.

If you want a vehicle that kills in one dead on shot your marauder works like a champ.

The Prowler also has a reticule that jumps with individual shots making constant hits a near impossibility, and it has negligible splash damage (the true advantage of the Vanguard in my opinion). Also, the real damage on the Prowler doesn't come from the 'stupid chain gun'. The stupid chain gun isn't worth a whole lot, and I'd bet money you see that gun changed during the balance pass.

The Enforcer is every bit the equal of the Marauder in my mind, I even prefer the Enforcer. The cert percentage is slightly in favor of the Marauder, though, so I'll give you that.

Please stop playing the little violin for yourself if you're going to claim I'm acting persecuted. It detracts from your argument.

[SandTrout]

Can we get back on the subject of the FUCKING SHIELD! For shit's sake, lets try to stay on topic.

Pros of NC MAX shield: It can takes most of the damage from 1 shot of any of the AV weapons. Can be a life saver if you're running away.

Cons of NC MAX shield: You can't fire your weapon, makeing it compleatly useless in just about any real combat situation. It drains while running, so you can't have it up all the time(this is fair, but it drains realy damn fast). As far as I can tell, all hits drain it with full damage, even hits from standard 9mm rounds that would do exactly squat to you if they hit you head on.

Conclusion: Only increases the MAX's ability to be a meat shield for a couple seconds. Encourages hit-and-run tactics(which doesn't work well for MAXes). Does NOT increase MAX's deffensive ability in battle because the MAX cant attempt to kill the target while it is up.

Pros of TR Anchor: Doubled ROF and reduced recoil/CoF.

Cons of TR Anchor: You cant move and have a limited field of fire.

Conclusion: Effectivly increases firepower by more than 200% due to hicher likelyhood of each projectile hiting its intended target. Encourages weapons spam and holding possions(which it does effectively). Increases offensive power of MAX only.

Pros of VS jets: You have added vertical menuverability.

Cons of VS jets: Uses charge. Though not directly tied to the Jets, the VS MAXes' weapons tend to be less powerful relative to the other empire's maxes.

Conclusion: Though is lacks power in the numbers, the Jets do what they were intended to by leting VS MAXes access to towers, walls, and trees, while also increaseing survivability against vehicles by jumping over them. It adds to the Defensive and offensive power of the MAX.

[Madcow]

Originally posted by Madcow
And what a surprise, you're NC and you're complaining and wanting a buff.

We won't exactly get anywhere with that line of thinking, obviously everybody is more familiar with their primary empire and for the most part people are little less rational about their empire's weapons and want to be more powerful. Trying to call somebody out for doing pretty much what you're already doing is pointless.

On the subject, I think the NC MAXs do get the short end of the stick on the special abilities. I think the usefulness of both the VS and TR special abilities gets blown out of proportion as they both have massive weak spots, but the TR is better than the other two, and the NC brings up the rear. I have seen some NC use the shield to great effect, but those were special occasions with extremely patient people willing to duck and cover and let their shield recharge over and over. It seemed to be a specific play style that certainly wouldn't appeal to me.
The shield itself also doesn't seem to lend itself to the whole idea behind the NC, it's very defensive for an army that is based around hitting hard. I wouldn't mind seeing it scrapped altogether but the only ideas I have to take it's place are entirely too similar to the TR anchor which would be too redundant. Somebody far more clever than myself would need to come up with something, but it shouldn't be hard to find that person
I also wouldn't mind seeing the Scattercannon become a little more effective at a distance. I think it's just find at close range, and not bad at medium range. I don't think it should become an armored sniper, but increasing it's punch at distance would most likely increase it's popularity quite a bit as it lags behind the other empires AI MAXs right now.

And all this from a TR!