Smaller list of nonsequitur changes I'd make.

[Flammey]

To quote Hamma, "This thread sucks"

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by TeraHertz

I use rexo, and yeah, reaver versus me, I'm going to die if I'm stupid enough to have been caught in the open...

What are you, a mole? How do you play PS without being out in the open now and then?

My point about playing werner, is that vehicles get OWNED by infantry here. I don't know of many people that don't carry at least one deci. The TR are the worst for it.

You've got some horrible vehicle drivers on Werner if they can't dodge Decimator shots. And even then, it takes more than one Decimator to kill pretty much any vehicle, giving the pilot plenty of opportunity to take off and repair if he has to.

Likewise, aircraft take a beating. Fly near a base and you're guarunteed a lockon. Pissed off with aricraft? Take the airtowers. Still getting harrased? Destroy the tech plant gens. If you still fear the mossies, get an AA cert and use it till they flack off.

Most of the time, a Reaver is capable of killing an AA MAX with rockets before dying himself to the MAX's rounds, unless the aircraft is severely outnumbered.

As for taking air towers, they can still go to bases with an air pad. And even then, what's to stop them from retaking the air tower, or going to a different air tower? And with destroying generators, yeah, those can get repaired pretty easily.

As for AA certs, 1v1 you will die a quick and horrible death against aircraft, as you must know given that you're infantry. Reavers scarcely have to aim to annihilate infantry in short order, and Mosquitoes can mow down infantry like nothing (especially NC who try to use a Phoenix, I imagine, given that they have to be stationary for a moment, which gives them a lifespan of about half a second when attacked by a Mosquito). Suffice to say, if you'd come out from your hiding place and bring yourself into the open now and then to see what aircraft can do to infantry who don't have a very strong compliment of AA MAXs, you'd realize that as it is, infantry AV weapons are pretty ineffective against aircraft.

Originally Posted by Flammey

To quote Hamma, "This thread sucks"

No, it's PS and it's Doom-esque BFG = win gameplay system that sucks. It's a brainless run-and-gun which quickly bores a lot of people, and those that stick around do so almost entirely because it happens to encourage teamwork quite a bit, and if you're with a good crew, that makes it fun. Very similar to SW:G, actually. You may be too narrow-minded to realize it, but Planetside is not incredibly popular. Maybe you don't give a shit about that and are happy to sit on your ass flaming people with your hilarious regurgitated one-liners, like the utter retard that you are, but I'd actually like to see this game improve some, and judging from their plans for Outfit base ownership, the only way that's going to happen is if the community actually gives some constructive feedback.

[Veteran]

AV weapons do garbage for damage against infantry. Take a Striker in VR and try to kill a Standard grunt and laugh at how many "missiles" it takes.

I'd call them over-glorified spitballs rather than Strikers. Striker implies something is getting stricken, not just mildly annoyed. There should be a warning label on the launcher that says it could be harmful to the health of the wielder. It could have a picture of a pissed-off MAX or something. At least Phoenix has some tactical meta-game value. No such luck for the Striker.

P.S. I think the Striker is lame as hell now. Just clearing that up.

[Warborn]

Woops, missed a post.

Originally Posted by Nimbus

Good point, and I agree. Every vehicle should really have it's own niche.

I just want to reemphasize that this is what the entire idea is. It's not to make Reavers or Mosquitoes or tanks or whatever worthless, it's to make the other vehicles equally desireable in, ideally, an equal number of situations.

Last I checked, they WERE lethal to infantry, it was just really hard to hit them with it. I've been 1 hit killed at full health and armor plenty of times by decimators while guarding a hack. I was twice today actually. Realism is a tool and not a goal as you said, but it is also the BASIS of the weapons.

It's the basis as far as immersion goes. If being shot by a rocket makes you turn pink and spout racist remarks, people won't understand why it's doing something completely against the grain of their mental rocket paradigm, and will dislike it.

Anyway, it takes a lot of Phoenix missiles (5?) to kill a Reinforced infantry. Conversely, it takes less to kill a MAX. It takes two Decimator rounds to kill a MAX, yet I'm sure it takes more to kill a Reinforced infantry. These are examples of game balance superceeding "realism"; even though the MAX is heavily armored, it supports gameplay for the Decimator to be weaker against infantry than it is against a MAX. Otherwise, the Decimator would become a universally effective weapon, making other weapons less useful overall (if, for example, Decimators one-shotted infantry) and basically ending up with the same sort of situation that we have now with the vehicles.

Thats true, but you have to realize that most of the vehicles WERE designed for taking out infantry. If the mowing really gets to be a problem, I would think a better solution would be to up the damage vehicles take from hitting them. The tank may be the best at handling ground issues, yes, however it's not as quick, not as maneuverable, it can't fly, it can't carry many soldiers and people wearing reinforced can't use it. Thats where the other vehicles come in.

I consider myself a very open-minded individual in regards to game design issues, so yeah, having a vehicle take more damage could probably be worked into an effective solution. I didn't want to ramble about all the possibilities, but I do acknowledge that there are many possibilites. The only thing I'm firm on is that it is a problem. There are a lot of ways to die in PS, and none of them are as anticlimatic as being run over by some guy who happens to know how to acquire a vehicle, drive it forward, and steer it.

Yes, I am justifying it based on realism as the game is BASED on reality. It's not completely realistic and realism isn't necessarily a goal but it does use reality as it's basis. I don't feel the devs should make it more realistic, but they certainly shouldn't make it less if they don't have to. I'm sorry for the comment on your intelligence, but I don't see the logic in hating realistic physics in a game that uses realistic physics as part of it's basis. I hate getting run over by ant's just as much as you do but I don't think that we should be immune to their effects or that they should be lessened. A more reasonable way to deal with the problem would be to make it easier to dodge out of the way.

My answer to this would have emulated my earlier one about immersion and rockets turning people purple or whatever, but I'll keep it short and sweet and say that, if you hate something in the game, it's a problem, and it needs to be addressed. At any rate, I'm glad at least a couple people here are attempting to view the situation objectively rather than get caught up on the "well ur playing the game wrong so stfu nothing is wrong with PS" mindset.

I agree totally. I saw a couple of flails during the 7 day trial thing but since then I havent' seen anything come out of those caves aside from NC and a few modules.

People just dive in, grab a module, and run out. They spent a lot of time (I think) working on scenery for something that amounts to little more than a variation of an ANT run.

And, to point out before someone snags me on it, I think there are other, better ways of getting people into the caverns aside from the new weapons/vehicles.

[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by Warborn

I consider myself a very open-minded individual in regards to game design issues, so yeah, having a vehicle take more damage could probably be worked into an effective solution. I didn't want to ramble about all the possibilities, but I do acknowledge that there are many possibilites. The only thing I'm firm on is that it is a problem. There are a lot of ways to die in PS, and none of them are as anticlimatic as being run over by some guy who happens to know how to acquire a vehicle, drive it forward, and steer it.

You do have a valid point. Being run over is rather anticlimactic and it can be frustrating, especially if there is just a single ANT or AMS preventing you from getting to a tower or facility. I do still think vehicles should be able to run over and kill you. They shouldn't be totally at the mercy of a single soldier with a rifle but maybe if it did a proportionate amount of damage they would think twice about weather to run or ram.

My answer to this would have emulated my earlier one about immersion and rockets turning people purple or whatever, but I'll keep it short and sweet and say that, if you hate something in the game, it's a problem, and it needs to be addressed. At any rate, I'm glad at least a couple people here are attempting to view the situation objectively rather than get caught up on the "well ur playing the game wrong so stfu nothing is wrong with PS" mindset.

I try to view things objectively. Sometimes I get caught up in the STFU mood. I can understand that mindset a little bit. It's kind of a nasty way of suggesting you try a differnt tactic around vehicles to cut back on the deaths you get from being run down. Generally if I see enemy vehicles around I get up on the walls and catwalks. You'd be surprised how long you can hold off vehicles from there.

As for AA certs, 1v1 you will die a quick and horrible death against aircraft, as you must know given that you're infantry. Reavers scarcely have to aim to annihilate infantry in short order, and Mosquitoes can mow down infantry like nothing (especially NC who try to use a Phoenix, I imagine, given that they have to be stationary for a moment, which gives them a lifespan of about half a second when attacked by a Mosquito). Suffice to say, if you'd come out from your hiding place and bring yourself into the open now and then to see what aircraft can do to infantry who don't have a very strong compliment of AA MAXs, you'd realize that as it is, infantry AV weapons are pretty ineffective against aircraft

The one thing I wonder when reading your posts, is if you've ever tried some of the vehicles you complain about. I'm not trying to be insulting, but the reaver and mosquito are actually pretty difficult vehicles to fight effectively with. They do tear infantry apart but they are difficult to aim with. It also makes them vulnerable to AA fire. Believe me, when I'm in my burster, seeing reavers and mosqs attacking infantry makes me smile because I know I've got an easy kill coming up.

[Rayder]

Reaver's rockets are annoying to aim with, but then you don't exactly have to hit your target head on. They're AV missiles, yet they have such an annoying splash radius.

The mosquito is weak as hell, it gets raped if it stops for too long.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Nimbus

The one thing I wonder when reading your posts, is if you've ever tried some of the vehicles you complain about. I'm not trying to be insulting, but the reaver and mosquito are actually pretty difficult vehicles to fight effectively with. They do tear infantry apart but they are difficult to aim with. It also makes them vulnerable to AA fire. Believe me, when I'm in my burster, seeing reavers and mosqs attacking infantry makes me smile because I know I've got an easy kill coming up.

I was an infiltrator for about half of Beta, then I went to drive Prowlers a hell of a lot for a long time. During my Prowler driving I also picked up most other ground vehicle certs, before and after the mounted guns on vehicles like the Harasser were made 360 weapons. I also have an alt which I use to do a lot of Reaver/Mosquito piloting, although I don't use him for Outfit ops as much due to that sort of thing not being a priority for the Outfit anymore. Currently I play a sniper a lot, although I switch around a little bit.

So, suffice to say, yes, I have played the things I'm suggesting to be rebalanced. In my Prowler days I used to feel bad about how many infantry I could mow over, even outkilling my gunner at times. And although I don't think I outkill my sniper when flying a Reaver/Mosquito, I come close, and definitely get many more MAX kills.

It's kind of a nasty way of suggesting you try a differnt tactic around vehicles to cut back on the deaths you get from being run down. Generally if I see enemy vehicles around I get up on the walls and catwalks. You'd be surprised how long you can hold off vehicles from there.

If you're on a wall or otherwise, you aren't holding the vehicles off. They're holding you off. You can't win a battle by only defending. You need to counter-attack eventually, and that's when your strategy will not be of much use, and it's where I'm basing a lot of my opinions from. Despite what some others may say in this thread, unless you cower in the spawn rooms all the time, eventually you're going to have to leave the perfect safety from vehicles that you get from beind indoors. Eventually you need to go outside the walls of a base. And that's where the problems arise.

Originally Posted by Rayder

Reaver's rockets are annoying to aim with, but then you don't exactly have to hit your target head on. They're AV missiles, yet they have such an annoying splash radius.

It's a pretty huge splash radius. It's the only thing about them I have a problem with.

The mosquito is weak as hell, it gets raped if it stops for too long.

It's fast as hell though. Easy to pick off a couple infantry and then fly off, only to come back from a different angle and repeat.

[Flammey]

Calm down Warborn. I said what I said for a reason. It didn't FLAME anyone. I never said, oh, so-and-so sucks. I said this thread sucks.

Now, WHY does this thread suck????? 2 reasons.

1, because there are already so many threads out there like this one, this one thread didn't really need to be made. The ideas I've read so far are only mediocre(sp?) They aren't bad, per say, just not the greatest. That is simply my opinion. No one has to listen to it.
2, is because while discussion of what would make things better, or how to make things better in PS is a good idea, and it inspires many people to do the same, posting it on anywhere but an official forum is at best chancy, as Developers might not even see this. That might not be the point of this thread's creater, so I will ignore that part of reason 2. It is just something to think about.

The other half of reason 2, concerns the idea of change. People seem to want so many things changed, because they see something that is too powerful, or too weak, when the forget that maybe the power of the object is just right for it's act. Instead of changing gameplay, why not fix the preformance issues first? Without good performance, gameplay matters shit.

I don't have any problems with the gameplay of Planetside. I have a problem with that annoying RAM drain that happens occasionally. I have 1 gig of RAM and 40 Gigs of hard drive space that can be used by the memory system, and I still get kicked to desktop, often after being in the game for less than a minute. I would rather they fixed THAT problem, than say reducing the damage against infantry from a 12mm chaingun. And, by the way, that's not a very good idea. A 12mm chaingun IS Anti Infantry. That's what it's there for. The Mosquito is not anti air, it is a scouting plane meant to sniff out infantry movements and to counter them.

And to quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about That."

[Vis Armata]

There are quite a bit of vehicles in Planetside that are not being used like they could. The new certifications will help out, in that getting rides will be cheaper for grunts. Still, I think that there is going to have to be some design changes to facilitate more vehicle use.

[Nimbus]

Originally Posted by Warborn

If you're on a wall or otherwise, you aren't holding the vehicles off. They're holding you off. You can't win a battle by only defending. You need to counter-attack eventually, and that's when your strategy will not be of much use, and it's where I'm basing a lot of my opinions from. Despite what some others may say in this thread, unless you cower in the spawn rooms all the time, eventually you're going to have to leave the perfect safety from vehicles that you get from beind indoors. Eventually you need to go outside the walls of a base. And that's where the problems arise.

Ohhhh.....okay. I see where you are coming from now. See, I do most of my fighting inside facilities and towers so finding cover and high places to shoot from aren't really a problem. Thinking back to ground battles I've been in, where there really isn't any cover, yeah these things can be a problem. It's not really so much that vehicles are doing things they shouldn't but that they are doing said things too well in some situations.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Flammey

stuff

HURR HURR THIS THREAD SUCKS HURR HURR