Can Endgame/Metagame help drive PS2 to continued success?

[Furret]

Yes, I absolutely agree with Kumo here.

If anything is added to PlanetSide, It should either be to improve on parts that were already in PS 1, or something to set apart PSN from other MMOFPS's.

It's got to be difficult to put all of the stuf he's suggested into a game, but SOE did it back in 2001, they can do it again.

Basically, PlanetSide's success mostly due to the fact that there was so much to do. All of the above are good ideas, SOE just has to implement them properly.

And don't you think this forum's spell check ought to have SOE and PlanetSide in it's dictionary? Fairly common words 'round these parts.

[ANaKeR]

The reason I think there should be no economy is because I believe its a step in the wrong direction for this game. More effort should be put into developing the game so that the FPS component is always changing as opposed to adding a an economy which is completely independent from FPS.

For example, have unlockable features for your weapons that are gained through achievements (consider the weapon variations in Team Fortress 2)
[I'll be writing an article on this idea soon]

[Firefly]

"NO ECONOMY" means exactly that.

No fucking economy. It's a goddamn shooter. You get a gun, you go shoot shit, and you fight-die-respawn. The end.

No consumables. No crafting, no fabricating, no making shit. No commodities. No "cash for clunkers". No auction house. Anything that would allow people to log in, sit in the fucking Sanctuary and farm materials - whether it's NTUs, bullet casings, scrap metal, salvaged gear - keep it the fuck out of an FPS. The last thing I want are econo-whores, gold-farmers, and gold-selling spammers.

Keep it simple. Planetside + better graphics, no BFRs, and naval combat.

[Kumoblade]

Originally Posted by Firefly

"NO ECONOMY" means exactly that.

No fucking economy. It's a goddamn shooter. You get a gun, you go shoot shit, and you fight-die-respawn. The end.

No consumables. No crafting, no fabricating, no making shit. No commodities. No "cash for clunkers". No auction house. Anything that would allow people to log in, sit in the fucking Sanctuary and farm materials - whether it's NTUs, bullet casings, scrap metal, salvaged gear - keep it the fuck out of an FPS. The last thing I want are econo-whores, gold-farmers, and gold-selling spammers.

Keep it simple. Planetside + better graphics, no BFRs, and naval combat.

Its very reassuring to know that Sony will most likely not take this approach, as it would Doom PlanetSide Next to the same fate as PlanetSide. A hack ridden unsupported game.

But hey, At least a new failed game would make ^^^ happy. If your Crusade against anything with an Economy/Dynamic changes would successful it would spell disaster that would make Richard Garriott laugh his ass off and think about making Tabula Rasa 2.

If you got your way though, I hope Sony would save us some face and just put on the packaging of PS: Next "Its Planetside...With better graphics!" so the ones who really hope for a new PlanetSide game don't have to worry about picking it up. =P

[Firefly]

Riiiiight... Planetside failed because it had no economy.

[Kumoblade]

Originally Posted by Firefly

Riiiiight... Planetside failed because it had no economy.

Wow..... No, it failed because it was 20, no 25, no 40 battle ranks of the same thing over and over with no support, a crappy expansion and then giant robots when barely anybody was left to care.

Whether Planetside was released 6 years ago, 4 years ago, or even in 2 years with just "better graphics" The outcome would be the same.

But I guess I can't say it really failed. It's still up and kicking. but with an abyssmal population.

Never once did I say planetside failed because it didn't have an economy. I said it failed because of what it is. 20+ battle ranks of the exact same thing over and over and over. It was fun for a long while, but it eventually gets old.

Having things to do, objectives, a goal will keep people playing. Having an economy may make you angry and upset, but unless you're willing to pay Sony for all the profit it would lose by NOT having an economy, its probably going to be the way it goes as it will bring Sony money which is what they want. And its what a lot of gamers want as well, with the exception of a few right-wingers who are afraid of change.

And you still can't deny that PlanetSide Next, should it be just PlanetSide with better graphics, would end up in the same bargain bin as PlanetSide.

Good on you for having such Fervor about PlanetSide and wanting to clone it, but after 6 years, it tastes kind of bland, and needs a new flavor.

[DviddLeff]

While I agree with Kumo that PS with simply better graphics would still do poorly, I do not think that putting an economy into the game would make it better in any way, and would likely harm it.

I fear that an economy would simply set new players apart from established ones and then break the best feature about PS, the fact that new players can stand toe to toe with veterans and have a fair chance of beating them.

However Planetside did have sub standard graphics at the time of release which did harm it; but it is an MMO, and graphics have to be sacrificed to make the thing work, which is something a lot of FPS players cant cope to lose.

Remember that Planetside was NOT as successful as it could have been, almost immediately after beta there were not enough players to fill up the available continents, so we saw the lattice confine players to a handful of continents at a time and pop caps reduced to spread out the player base; perhaps it would have been better if they had merged the East and West coast servers within a few months after release, as there were never enough players to fill it up.

The major problem with the game was lack of support; yes there was a poor expansion (6 months after launch; it was already in the works as release came about) and then BFRs fucked the whole thing over further. After that updates were few and far between, never changing the game enough to detract from the same base and tower fights again and again.

The game needs more depth for all players, and the best way is perhaps is to give the tools to add that depth to the players; get them to create their own bases, develop their own weapons and vehicles and stamp their mark on the world.

[Kumoblade]

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

The game needs more depth for all players, and the best way is perhaps is to give the tools to add that depth to the players; get them to create their own bases, develop their own weapons and vehicles and stamp their mark on the world.

Unfortunately, by FireFly's logic, anything crafting, creating or developing is Economy and PlanetSide Next should have none of it.

I don't see it as that, as I've stated in several other threads.

I'm opposed to Out of outfit trading. There should be personal Lockers and Outfit Lockers where you can store your stuff. Building/creating/crafting/whatever for you and your outfit doesn't amount to economy. And if anything is bought or sold, it should be through Strictly NPC vendors.


There is so much PlanetSide could do for the next Release in the series. I hope Smedley can see its faults and know where to pick it up. He's openly admitted admiring various other competitor's games, and its admirable for him to appreciate them.

I just hope he can take what he's gained/learned and put it into the next game which may have meaningful journey and endgame.

Playing PlanetSide with its few bases and no reason to fight is just like playing CS-office, CS-office2, CS-Office 3 over and over, except it requires a subscription to do so. The only thing different about taking the different bases is a color palette swap.

[DviddLeff]

Don't forget that many games now have persistent character development even when they are not an MMO (many of them claim they are an MMO only because of this however), allowing their players to level up, unlock new equipment etc and all without a subscription.

All PS has is the massive battles to stand apart.

[Kumoblade]

Aye, PlanetSide did/still does have massive battles. Thats a blessing and a curse depending on what end of barrel you're on. In Massive battles, the fights require lots of patience. Post-Surgiles (oh God I miss it) will find themselves getting mowed down by tons of gunfire as they go charging in, respawn/repeat and eat it again.

Thus, largescale fights can get quite frustrating. As an Adamant Surge addict, I loved a run and gun gamestyle that Surging provided, and I did find myself getting frustrated in aggressive combat styles before having to hold myself back. Watching that death respawn timer growing and growing got old ha ha.

This also applies if you're getting stomped, etc.. and you feel every respawn is more of the game than the action is, be it being outnumbered 3/1 and your comrades are giving up and going elsewhere, etc...


that's the nature of the beast though with large battles. I'm a guy coming from Doing great in Unreal tournament series and quake to a more tactical version of this game (post surgile) where dodging/avoiding gunfire isn't based on your reflexes as you move so slowly when out in the open you're just dead meat.

Anyways, I don't know where I was going with that other than to bring it up as i'm a bit absent minded due to Server training. ha ha. But yes, PlanetSide does have large battles going for it.

As well, many games are trying to market themselves as MMOs which are merely instances with an interactive lobby. The interactive lobby is what they feel merits a subscsription instead of it being a client Side GUI with Host/Client setup independently for each game.

Its just them trying to cash in on stupidity, fortunately, its a failing marketting scheme. CrimeCraft has done Absolutely HORRIBLE with this marketting strategy. The same goes with Aurean's Fury if anybody remembers that game. Coincidentally both use the Unreal 3 engine. Fury was a PVP based lobby game that was so rediculously fast you couldn't keep up. it wasn't an FPS by any means. It was 3rd person action/combat in an RPG layout. It was atrocious.

I hope PlanetSide doesn't follow that scheme. But technically, thats what planetside was as well. an Interactive lobby (Sanctuary) with instanced battles. just very large instances that can support 100+ people per side. You couldn't fly between zones because they were all instances. same with the caves, as you had to be teleported down to them.

[DviddLeff]

Surgile! *Spits*

Nothing skilful about jumping through the roof of a corridor, landing behind the defenders and triple-shotting them in the spine.

Surgile would have been fine; if PS could handle the movement that fast at close quarters without impossible lag.

Before PS I played Counterstrike, but as a solo player, totally twitch based but without the speed of UT or even Quake; with no buddies to worry about it was all down to your skill.

In PS I put together one of the first all round outfits before even beta and can not now bring myself to play a multiplayer game without my outfit; it just feels empty without them.

The thing I particularly love about PS is the fact that there is the zerg; because it allows organised groups to work around it and make a difference, showing everyone else how the jobs done.

[Kumoblade]

Hate Surgiles all you want, but damn it, it was fun =P.

I never used surge to do the teleport exploit once i found out what was really going on. I just enjoyed the faster pace it gave me and allowed me to avoid heavy fire. It was great for making a surprise assault on enemies and closing distance on MA while wielding an HA weapon.

If anything, it felt great charging the enemies, dodging gunfire from all directions and handing their faces to them. It may have not been the greatest Strategy, but it sure did feel heroic when you could charge 3-4 guys with a MCG (Terran) and promptly dispatch them on an individual Pound-for-Pound level.

Reminds me of Revvy from Black Lagoon =P.

With better network management, I'd like to see Surge+Weapons again where the whole disappearing act is gone.

In some strategies, fast assault is needed for things such as flanking and punching a hole through enemy lines and catching them by surprise.

As A surgile, I liked to be the dagger in the back, instead of the army upfront. Nothing got my blood pumping like A Mosquito Bomb drop onto an Enemy base (Before you went into twisted 3rd person view D and being able to fire on the enemies as you dropped onto the top entrance and hit the ground sprinting, weaving in and out of enemies and just plowing through them before they know what hit em.

However, it was unfortunate for those who aren't prepared for that kind of gameplay, preferring a more slow combat and strategy as their reflexes couldn't keep up with those from more diversed FPS experiences.

It was that kind of Commando'esque combat that I love because I was tired of getting friendly fired by Joe'schmoe and his inability to pick targets properly =P.

That and I'm a total Shock-combo whore in Unreal >.>

Anyways, back on Topic, I hope Smedley will throw alot of effort into PS:Next. I want it to be suitable for various playstyles, but restrictive enough to not let people become 1-man armies who can do everything. There has to be a bigger role for various skills beyond supporting blowing someone's face off.

i would prefer if hackers actually had to engage in mini-games, and Engineers could sabotage enemy vehicles and facilities along with Medics.

A stealth medic who could pump an enemy full of Neurotoxins and really fuck with their mojo.

[Tikuto]

This old "Surgile" thing. I thought of an idea with Infiltrator some time ago with this "Surgile" in-mind.

• Most players have Darklight feature on their helmet which they can activate whenever they want.
  • In a reality-sense you'd expect Darklight not being a biological implant but, instead, more of an essential feature for infantry. Going invisible is a major advantage in food-chain and every1 could go invisible in PS with only 1 REXO, surrounded. This common universal military feature acts as counter-balance towards an ideally improved Infiltrator suit.
• Infiltrator also gets Darklight on their helmet but can only be used when uncloaked.
• EMP grenades can disable multiple player's Darklight as per usual.
• Infiltrator has an in-built External Aerobic Bionic wormed around their suit to allow for "surging" around the scene, cloaked or uncloaked, which may also passively improve melee damage consequently.
  • Suit that cloaks, moves fast and consequently improves melee damage.

Other implants: Second Wind, Regeneration, something else...
Hm...

[DviddLeff]

Regarding Surge and fast assault, ideally what I would like to see is agile armour scrapped (everyone spawns in Rexo) and it changed to be a jump jet equipped armour.

Then you have:

Standard (Pilot suit, used by pilots and drivers only)
Agile (Jump Jet, fast attack)
Rexo (standard armour, versatile)
MAX (heavy defence)

This would be tied into various weapon changes (scrapping HA and redoing it so it is balanced with other guns and is truly a close combat cert, rather than what it is currently) and limiting agile and standard to small weapons like SMGs or new light weapons which only really work at close quarters.

Anyway, we're going miles off topic!

Check out this supply concept from the idealab:

http://www.planetside-idealab.com//i..._changes.shtml

And empire tech levels:

http://www.planetside-idealab.com//i...e_levels.shtml