Command

basti · 2011-01-28, 11:20 AM

Repost of Forumside, because im sure the discussion here will be more useful than the general tl;dr spam on forumside. :/

Leading?

Leading is complicated, very complicated.

You have to take alot of stuff into account, make yourself famous and well known as a commander, keep that reputation, etc. Its a whole little game for itself.

And i love that game.

Because of that, PSN seriously needs to fix the issues PS had.

As said already, everything was fine at the beginning. A few CR5s, most of them cared, and if some new CR5 came up who didnt give a crap, he would be quiet on /comall. If a hard case popped up who would just counterglobal everything to annoy everyone, he usually ended up on ignore by alot of people.

But at some point, not that long ago, to many CR5s were around, and the structure slowly faded into the abyss, together with the population.

There is no way to prevent that from happening again. If PSNext goes down to just one server (after many years), only the Vets will stay, and just as in PS right now, most of those Vets will have at least one CR5 (i got two VS cr5s...)

But, what PSnext can do, is to give us a layout to form a structure, rather than just the possiblility to write to everyone.

To make it simple, i put this model onto PS current command system. Im pretty sure PSnext will have it somewhat different, but i rather take old and make it fresh than just creating something completly new that isnt even close to what PS is currently or what PSnext may be.

Up to and including CR4, everything stays the same.

Once you reach CR5, you can choose between being a Platoon Leader (cant think of a better name atm, need ideas!), or a Commander.You can switch between the roles once a week, means you you switch, you have to wait a week before you can switch again.

Platoon leader: All the handy CR5 tools like Big OS etc. But NO /comall etc! Platoon leaders also have their own /c chat. They can read CR4 /sitreps, and can do /sitreps for Battle Commanders and above.

Now, the real new stuff:

3 new sub Command ranks coming with choosing a commander:

Battle Commander

Continental Commander

Global Leader

Those 3 have a few things in Common: They dont have a CR5 OS, they keep the small CR4 OS. They share the same /c chat, and have the ability to see more stuff on the map, like Reval enemys of each other.

But they also got different roles to fufill.

Battle Commander: These are the guys who take care of the micro managment. They form and lead Tank raids, Max crashes, Gal drops, stuff like that. They tell you what entrance to your base needs more people, what the enemy is doing etc.

All their actions only work in the Battle Area, and that area is chosen by the current Continental Commander. Battle Commander actions include: chat to all friendly players in that area (/com blablaba), waypoints visible to all friendly players in that area, Battleplans visible to all friendly players in that area.

Continental Commander: He manages the overall continental strategy. What base to attack, from where to attack, what base to defend, etc.

Can write to all friendly players on the continent he is chosen to lead, but has to be on that continent. Can also do Waypoints for everyone as well as battleplans, but can also do waypoints and Plans only visible to the Battle Commanders. Gains a second reveal enemys that got a extremly long reuse timer, but shows enemys in a much greater area (the entire continent maybe? Could be to much).

The most imporant thing he has to do is to choose the battle area. How to: Select one Base as the target to attack, or defend in case its a friendly base, and one base where to pull vehicles from. Would be the closest base always. All friendly players could see that, and know exactly where to be without any need to do a /com. It could even give a annoucment every time the target is changed, maybe combined with something that lets players think "oh, something new is going on, let me quickly check the map".

The Area between and around the Target and the origin is the battle area. Technically, a straight line between the two bases, and every player x Meters/feet close to that line is within the battle area. On top of that, double the SOI size for Origin and Target base also belongs to the battle area.

Global Commander: They tell you what continent to go to. they are the ONLY ones with the ability to do a /comall as well as write to every continent. They can also select continents and choose them to be the Primary/secondary or whatever target, up to a fixed number depending on the amount of continents in the game and the amount of players currently on (no point to choose 6 targets if your pop can only support 3). Players who are on the Primary/Secondary/whatever target get a BEP bonus.

Selection:

Continental Commander: The Continental Commander is chosen directly by the Battle Commanders. A simple vote system, and whoever currently has the most votes is the Continental Commander. If Votes change, Commander change, instantly. Means if you screw up, you get replaced. :>

Global Commander: There are several of them, like 3-5, depending on god knows whatever (just choose a number how many you want). There are several to allow make it much more likley that there is one of them online and playing at any given time. Every Commander can vote who shall become Global Commander. One Vote per Commander, you can change your vote at every time. Once every week (sunday?) the votes are count and the 3 / 4 / 5 Commander with the most votes become Global Commanders.

In case no Global Commander is on, Commanders can do a quick vote to choose a Emergency Global Commander. He got the same abilitys as the normally chosen Global Commanders, but will only stay Emergency Global Commander until a regular Global Commander gets online and and choses to fufill his job (a message window with "Commander XYZ has been chosen as emergency Commander, do you want to replace him and do your job? Yes / Not yet )

The GTFO system:

In case some tart chooses to be a Commander just to annoy people, EVERY commander can start a degrade vote. If more that 50% of the online commanders choose yes for that vote, the annoying twat gets instantly degraded to be a Platoon leader. He may choose to be a commander again after a few hours (rather than a week, in case he just got a short brain lag).

If he chooses to be a commander again and starts to annoy people once more, means another vote is made and he is degraded once more, he cannot choose to be a commander again for a longer period of time.

Pretty much like the current grief system. Screw up, get locked, get unlocked, screw up again, get locked even longer. Just without loosing the ability to play.

Comments? Ideas?

Will improve later, once someone postet something useful :>

MgFalcon · 2011-01-28, 11:43 AM

This is an amazing concept, although I would like to see better implementation of outfit leaders into the command presence. Granted they should already be cr5, but it's still a swing vote on their agenda for where to send their troops. Your idea of battle commander has a lot of similarities of what an outfitleader should be doing, but to say every outfitleader to take this position would be silly. They at least should have the command chat open with battle commanders so they have logical input and vote status.

That was just my fee thoughts, amazing idea though. I really hated when some ass would get on and spam /comall counters and causing the zerg to disperse all over the planet lol

Tikuto · 2011-01-28, 11:49 AM

Telling people what to do in their game, for most of the attempts, does not work especially if they're paying for it.

What I suggest is let everyone command so that Commanders can make the decisions (not orders). e.g. Everyone could have a Laze Point, they use it and Commanders see it on their map. There the 'Officers in Command' (like an ever-changing pool of selected commanders) then make decisions for their artillery, air or orbital strikes.

basti · 2011-01-28, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Tikuto

Telling people what to do in their game, for most of the attempts, does not work especially if they're paying for it.

What I suggest is let everyone command, and then Commanders can make the decisions (not orders).

years of planetside has showed two things: You are wrong, and you are wrong.
You can lead people, if they trust you. It works, plenty of guys did it, including myself.
letting everyone command is what we currently have, and now take a look at /c ...

Hamma · 2011-01-28, 11:52 AM

I really like your ideas on this. One of my fears with a voting system you mentioned and that is that the tard Outfits.. (you all know them) with tons of members monopolize the vote. I'm not sure if there is any major way around that unless EVERYONE on the server has a vote.

That being said, PS as it is now really lacked a solid command system. The idea of CR5's was a great one and had allot of potential. But most of the abilities you got aside from CR5 OS and Continent chat were just "oOoOoO shiny!" and not really useful. I mean who used to draw on the map any useful tactics? Most people just drew penises and the like.

Command Rank (if it exists) in PlanetSide Next should really have tons of information available to them. Realtime data provided on what is going on in the battles. This is something we never had in PS other than "HotSpots" which were fairly useless. Your ideas are sound it would be a matter of how to implement the selection process.

Telling people what to do in their game, for most of the attempts, does not work especially if they're paying for it.

This is true, but I still think there is a place for CR5's. Early in the game they were an integral part of attacks. Sure some people didn't want to listen.. but quite a few did and it was enough to make a difference. Not like it is now where people login and say hi to everyone over global.

Barbapapa123 · 2011-01-28, 12:26 PM

hmm interesting...
my only concern is the tall heirarchy of command, it's probly best to have 1 set of commanders with one of them outranking everyone. and let the squad, platoon, and outfit leaders takecare of the operational management.

I know another MMO with many good features that PS:N could emulate. One such feature was a democratic vote of the whole faction to elect a leader for a week. the leader appoints 4 council members, each giving a special AOE buff to nearby frendlies (mostly weak ones like + 5%hp a buff nonetheless). the council have their own special global chat for commanding people,and could launch nukes (OS counterpart but really huge area, and only council members could buy and launch one). they only coordinated troops through chat which was quite a remarkable thing as nearly everybody followed their orders.

some of these people rule for months, depending on their popularity and apeal as a leader. the only problem is PS:N is an FPS and im not quite sure if people follow or cooperate.

Bags · 2011-01-28, 12:28 PM

Voting is always abusable.

Gogita · 2011-01-28, 01:35 PM

I read this somewhere on the official PS forums, which I found quite interesting.

What about making Command experience diminish over time and diminish faster the higher CR you are. This would mean that you do not lead for some period, you will get demoted in CR, so you will have to lead constantly in order for you to maintain a high CR.

There is only one flaw in this... being squad leader often does not mean being a good leader....
Haven't figured out yet how this can be solved, any ideas?

Hamma · 2011-01-28, 03:18 PM

I'm not entirely sure there is a good solution for that. The problem is the asshat ratio in gaming is extremely high. Asshats tend to congregate and promote each other to higher and higher ranks.

Firefly · 2011-01-28, 03:44 PM

I don't need CR5 for anything other than the ability to blow the fuck out of an NC or VS AMS. I command based on a variety of factors, none of which pertain to a video game. My outfit is a military-style organisation and can accomplish the aforementioned tasks based on its leadership, many of whom learned that Art in the ranks of various military organisations.

CR5 was a means to an end. That end was usually telling ignorant CR5s where they could put their CUD.

As for voting... you've seen what happens when any idiot who thinks they have an opinion has access to a computer. You end up with Sarah Palin. I'm sure many of you remember the term "zergfit". An outfit that invites just about anyone into it ranks and allows them to run amok on voting issues is as much of a threat to successful combat operations as a guy named Smiley777 or GODJOEY in TR CR5 chat talking about how many peanuts were in their shit just now.

And in all honesty, I don't have time to answer every single vote that comes my way in-game. I'd rather be killing your avatars.

Tikuto · 2011-01-28, 03:44 PM

Ok. Suggestion Time.

Militants, Officers & Commanders
Based on the previous system of squad leaders, platoon leaders and command ranks.

Leaders each zone/continent (## capacity):

1st priority of Commanders - CR5,4,3,2,1 (battalion leaders, platoon leaders & squad leaders)
2nd priority of Officers - CR0 (platoon leaders & squad leaders)

non-commander, Militant actions:

Make suggestive actions for selected Officers & Commanders of the zone/continent.
e.g. The typical militant can laser paint where's best to place an orbital strike, and then the commanders can decide and execute that action at the appointed location.

Officer or Commander actions:

Make reasonable or unreasonable decisions and executions of responsible Commanding abilities like an orbital strike, air strike, BFR activation.
Speak to each other with text chat or always-active voice chat: communication is essential!

Command Experience would be made or unmade from "Evaluation Votes":

Each decision is viewed by all leaders as if they're proposing an executable action. Prompting executable actions.
Each execution by one person is then voted either Bad[X] or Good[✔] from the whole pool of continental leaders. Mostly good votes increases Command Experience. Mostly Bad votes decreases Command Experience.
More voters equals more accuracy or inaccuracy and a greater result.

Effectively the players ultimately decide who's the best Commander(s) (CR5).
Effectively all empires ultimately realize who the better Empire - who is most cooperative.

Infektion · 2011-01-28, 03:47 PM

Tikuto, I hope that profile picture is really you. I'm having such a laugh at the ugliness!

DviddLeff · 2011-01-28, 03:54 PM

https://sites.google.com/site/planet...mmand-overhaul

See above for my ideas on Companies, CR requiring cert points, CEP decay, squad missions and more.

Tikuto · 2011-01-28, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

https://sites.google.com/site/planet...mmand-overhaul

CEP Decay could be different. CEP could be decreased by votes from other people. After an executable CR ability like the Orbital Strike there would be a small vote on the map beside the execution.
If it's a good execution you expect good votes [✔] and if it's a poor execution you expect bad votes [X].
Executing command abilities are only able if you a leader of sorts (excluding Outfit leader) to command with your comrades on your zone/continent.

sound cool? :P

SgtSnarf · 2011-01-28, 04:39 PM

What about an interface that allows you to pull up all available CR5 commanders that are presently logged in and active.

With an easy-to-use toggle interface, you can select the one(s) that you want to follow and you will only see their global broadcasts. This makes it easy to filter out the noise and to pro-actively choose the people you respect and actually want to follow. You could even add additional features to this interface that introduce additional communication tools and leadership abilities.

It's much easier to build a bridge than drain a river.

-SgtSnarf