Vehicles, AV weapons, and the role of Infantry - Page 2

Robert089 · 2011-02-24, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Timantium

So the VS get the best tank with the most advanced maneuverability, but it is completely negated against NC/TR infantry because their AV weapons are EZmode and it takes multiple rail gun shots to kill them anyway.

I find I can kill Magriders much easier with the Lancer, with my striker they will pop out of cover, shoot, then hide again before my rockets get close and I watch them explode against the rock they hid behind. With the lancer this is not a problem, especially with the tanks having such huge hitboxes. Just look at the size of the prowler!

Wrath · 2011-02-24, 07:46 PM

I think as people have said here and in other threads its not that vechiles are op its that the enviroments you get in PS outdoors all tend to favour them. i'm sure in PS:N a few different map types and it'll be fine, tanks and the link should always be over powered vs infantry in the right situation with long sight lines and such.

there just needs to be more maps where sight lines are more closed in and such so infantry and shine more.

goneglockin · 2011-02-25, 06:40 AM

News of PlanetSide Next has brought me out of the woodwork.

Now I've said this years ago, the real problem is that vehicles shouldn't be fighting or farming infantry, they should be fighting other vehicles. If you gave vehicles something like loadout options, allowing them to specialize in different types of vehicular combat... it would probably be fun enough to stand up on it's own.

The sphere of influence should be an EMP field, indiscriminately disabling vehicles that enter it if they don't get out fast enough. The vehicle spawning area for each base would be moved towards the towers and become a mini-base, outside of the SOI.

It is here that infantry/vehicle skirmishing would occur as defenders try to keep the vehicles rolling out and attackers try to keep them pinned in. Once that mini-base falls, it's infantry's time to play, in an area much more suited to urban grunt battles than the cramped courtyards that were filled with vehicle weapons spam.

So infantry gets their infantry fight... and ppl who would rather play destruction derby can spawn out of the base, grab a vehicle, and try to cut off the attackers in the SOI.

It creates an environment where vehicular and infantry fights are coexisting simultaneously, with little blending at some points.

One of the biggest problems with PlanetSide was the distinct phases to the fights. Vehicle rushes through the field, spammy tower fight, spammy base fight, vehicle rush. I really got tired of the parts that didn't interest me especially knowing the infantry portion was very short lived, usually, and very cramped.

That's why the early days were the best, because not everyone knew the formula and people would just sit outside and exchange MA fire before everyone had the mossie cert to farm these people.

Anyway, the way things worked before were not optimum- that's for sure.

Canaris · 2011-02-25, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by goneglockin

News of PlanetSide Next has brought me out of the woodwork.

Now I've said this years ago, the real problem is that vehicles shouldn't be fighting or farming infantry, they should be fighting other vehicles. If you gave vehicles something like loadout options, allowing them to specialize in different types of vehicular combat... it would probably be fun enough to stand up on it's own.

The sphere of influence should be an EMP field, indiscriminately disabling vehicles that enter it if they don't get out fast enough. The vehicle spawning area for each base would be moved towards the towers and become a mini-base, outside of the SOI.

It is here that infantry/vehicle skirmishing would occur as defenders try to keep the vehicles rolling out and attackers try to keep them pinned in. Once that mini-base falls, it's infantry's time to play, in an area much more suited to urban grunt battles than the cramped courtyards that were filled with vehicle weapons spam.

So infantry gets their infantry fight... and ppl who would rather play destruction derby can spawn out of the base, grab a vehicle, and try to cut off the attackers in the SOI.

It creates an environment where vehicular and infantry fights are coexisting simultaneously, with little blending at some points.

One of the biggest problems with PlanetSide was the distinct phases to the fights. Vehicle rushes through the field, spammy tower fight, spammy base fight, vehicle rush. I really got tired of the parts that didn't interest me especially knowing the infantry portion was very short lived, usually, and very cramped.

That's why the early days were the best, because not everyone knew the formula and people would just sit outside and exchange MA fire before everyone had the mossie cert to farm these people.

Anyway, the way things worked before were not optimum- that's for sure.

Turning the SOI into some random crasy EMP weapon isn't something I'd like. The whole point of vehicles is to break a bases outter defense grid to allow the infantry access to the interior of the base. I think not allowing vehicles to get into a bases SOI would just rob the game of to much playability.

goneglockin · 2011-02-25, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Canaris

Turning the SOI into some random crasy EMP weapon isn't something I'd like. The whole point of vehicles is to break a bases outter defense grid to allow the infantry access to the interior of the base. I think not allowing vehicles to get into a bases SOI would just rob the game of to much playability.

You don't really articulate well as to why.

The biggest problem with the people who play this game, and still is, I see- is there's what works in PlanetSide as you know it and little else considered.

Vehicles would still be "breaking the outer defense grid," we're just moving it a bit farther out... However you want to justify the need for a buffer or whatever the gimmick or poetic license behind the game mechanic, the need for a buffer for infantry play is real.

Interior base fights were some of the sorriest displays of FPS gaming I've ever seen. The novelty of their being absolutely nutty quickly wore off... and we soon saw things like max crashes, where we'd literally line people up and run them in hoping sheer numbers would break the monotony.

This is not what people, normal people, want to play. PlanetSide NEXT modeled closely on it's original will suffer the same fate as the original. I realize what forum I'm on and that some of you still play, couldn't imagine that, but I really hope things are radically different in concept and function.

The basic principles were sound, but much of it was complete guess work as to how to make it really play well as no one had ever really made such a game before. Judging by late in it's 2nd year, play well, it obviously did not.

P.S.

What's funny is that some of us are in our 30's now or closing in on it pretty soon. I have little time for ForumSide, so i'll check back around when I do.

Later.

Timantium · 2011-02-25, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by goneglockin

The sphere of influence should be an EMP field, indiscriminately disabling vehicles that enter it if they don't get out fast enough. The vehicle spawning area for each base would be moved towards the towers and become a mini-base, outside of the SOI.

So, this means I get to camp the vehicle pad and I don't even have to go into the base SOI where the infantry will be using base defenses against me?

I think this idea would really splinter the game. The whole point of having air, ground (and perhaps navy) vehicles is to add them to the conflict. If the elements of the game do not have synergy then what's the point.

We would end up with the people who love vehicles simply driving around the edge of their own SOI baiting people to come in (like some timewasters do at WG now).

Plus, how would we get an ams even close to the bases if we can't drive it into an enemy SOI. The more I think about this idea, the less I like it.

Hamma · 2011-02-25, 12:03 PM

Interesting discussion.

I honestly don't feel there was ever a major issue with Infantry vs Vehicle combat. They should most certainly be powerful vs infantry.

But they are weak against a team, and that is what this game is about.

Canaris · 2011-02-25, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by goneglockin

You don't really articulate well as to why.

You are quite correct I didn't articulate it very well, my apologies

Okay to expand on just why vehicles should be allowed into the bases exterior.

The base defenders have on paper a much simpler job, cover the entrances and force the attackers out by using all means at their disposal. Plus they have the advantage of closer spawn chambers and access to the vehicle terminals.

The attacking force has to overwhelm the defenders position and bottle them up at the spawn chamber or at least hold the CC area until it can be hacked, now you usually loose a lot more attackers taking a well defended base.
The attackers have then return to the fight via either the closest tower or set up AMS and to get new vehicles for a fight the attackers have to return to another base which is a lot farther away from the action.

For this reason you should be able to have vehicles enter the courtyards to help bottle up the defenders inside while the various pushes for the CC or Generator are made.

Forcing them to remain well outside the base I think gives the defenders just to much of advantage that would slow down base fighting into a crawling stalemate of back and forth.

The reason why vehicles allowed into the base is so important is it can give the attackers that little breathing room to regroup and push.

I've seen plenty of sieges broken by a smaller determined defense force and then turned into an attack route as the defenders push back out and follow the enemy home and take their base.

Tactics and luck determine base fights not what vehicles are around although they help.

Hope thats a bit better of an answer