Own Worst Enemy

TRex · 2011-04-09, 01:00 PM

This thread is all about the old phrase ''it's not the gun that kills , it's the person using it''.

What I'm getting at is that a PvP game needs players in sufficient quantity to be worth logging on for. At the first hurdle , SOE failed miserably by almost non-existant advertising in the original. The initial player base probably never achieved what it could have been , and since then the game has been haemoraging players ever since .

A lot of this can be attributed to balance , bugs , lag, netcode , nerfs and buffs .Lack of persistance and character development. Successive 'patches' rendering the game less playable than the previous incarnation .Hackers. And, of course, we can't forget BFR's.

All the above is true , but I put it to you that the biggest enemy within Planetside is the community itself. I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush , far from it . But being a PvP orientated game , someone's enjoyment or idea of fun is often going to be at the expense of another's.

Was surgile worthy of it's nerf ? I don't think many regret it's departure in it's original form . Used as a defensive or offensive tool it had it's place , but ultimately it was down to it's abuse by players that meant it had to be nerfed. Especially combined with JH quadshot.

Look at the introduction of BFR's , they were an abomination on their release , and players were certing them in their droves .New Toy. The resultant bloodbath just had the effect that you either joined the goontrain , or logged off. History tells us that most just logged off.

The thing is , people will always go for the lowest common denominator . Whether that's air cavalry , personal shield , plasma spam or standing in a base half a continent away holding fire button down in your flail aiming at a tower doorway. Or maxes . Oh , how I hate maxes . Not the odd one or 2 of dedicated infil/max players or those that use them selectively . The ones that use them simply because it's cheap and cheesy and can't kill anything otherwise. It's then a downward spiral of certing max to counter max to be competitive.

You also have the proliferation of wall humpers. 3rd person was a nice touch in planetside. But it eventually brought the gameplay down to the lowest common denominator again , and with it more excuses for the use of plasma and maxes , once again.

Last , but definately not least , is hackers. I know a lot deny it , but there seems to be an infectious 'if you can't beat them, join them' scenario in Planetside. Maybe it's because those that play legit get fed up and less log on , concentrating the effect on the fewer legit players remaining.

This may have turned into a rant about original Planetside and it's faults, but I hope the desired effect is pointing out that it's the players themselves that through overuse and abuse of many things that force others into the position where the game is no longer fun for them.They go try other games instead.

In regards to Planetside:Next , I wanted to as a community, redress past failings and not shoot ourselves in the foot again. Maybe just wishful thinking.

Firefly · 2011-04-09, 01:11 PM

This game had a LOT of people in beta. It also had a lot of people in retail, because I vividly recall a number of instances where half of my outfit was stuck queuing in warpgates on two separate continents. Two separate pop-locks.

LordReaver · 2011-04-09, 06:11 PM

And the third cont was like half full itself. Sometimes with a 4th small fight somewhere.

Lonehunter · 2011-04-09, 06:14 PM

I want to argue about something, but I just can't figure out what the OP is trying to prove or point out.

Sifer2 · 2011-04-09, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Lonehunter187

I want to argue about something, but I just can't figure out what the OP is trying to prove or point out.

Well he kind of rambled making scattered points. Lack of persistence/character development I think was a big one that cost a lot of customers at release. People expect something more long term from an MMO even a PvP one.

An yeah it being an SOE game they often make it worse over time instead of better. Changing the original vision or just adding ideas that don't fit like BFR.

As for the community its been proven the majority of people will go for the path of least resistance. This means whatever weapon/equipment is seen to be the easiest way to rack up a lot of kills in PS. Which is why in a good FPS ideally the most powerful weapon is also the most difficult to use or hard to get a hold of.

TRex · 2011-04-10, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by Sifer2

Well he kind of rambled making scattered points.

Yes, I think I did

I wanted to make the point that what failings the original development and lack thereafter did to the playerbase was made up for with the playerbase itself. I'm all for variety , and people will use whatever tools they have to have fun and kill their opposites. I just hope the next installment has the balance right between variety and lack of anything immediately cookie cutter and cheesy .

Effective · 2011-04-10, 05:22 AM

You can't blame the player-base for abusing poorly balanced/implemented game mechanics, whether it be corner-camping, special assault, MAX units etc.

It's SOE's fault for not doing what it needs to do, in order to limit this sort of destructive (in a really bad way) game behavior.

Nephilimuk · 2011-04-10, 06:04 AM

BFR's did it for me originally. The game got stale second time round as the pop dropped after the reserves ended and my online outfit friends stopped playing.

Regular updates work for me keep adding stuff and try for at least one expansion a year. Again hate to keep referring to CCP but they do seem to have it right both with marketing and expansions.

As for players other than hacking which imho people should be banned straight away then people will do what it takes to gain an advantage. If it works for a few then the masses will follow happens with every video game.

Can't be that bad though we are all here reading about it and most of us still play.

On a personal note I would like to see the opportunity for the creation of SOE sponsored fansites and viral advertising once the game is in beta.

Lonehunter · 2011-04-10, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by TRex

Yes, I think I did

I wanted to make the point that what failings the original development and lack thereafter did to the playerbase was made up for with the playerbase itself. I'm all for variety , and people will use whatever tools they have to have fun and kill their opposites. I just hope the next installment has the balance right between variety and lack of anything immediately cookie cutter and cheesy .

Ah I see what you mean. Game balance is always at the center of it all. it decides the success and failure of the game, and there will always be people willing to exploit any imbalances.

Personally I think having just 1 weapon that is the best to kill people with was a bad idea, because everybody has Heavy Assault if they want to kill now. Imagine if there where just 3 different weapons in that category. If each is equal, and an empire variant, you've just increased variety from the first PS big time.

Originally Posted by Effective

It's SOE's fault for not doing what it needs to do, in order to limit this sort of destructive (in a really bad way) game behavior.

Yes SOE did make some awful choices, but if you're expecting perfect game balance you're going to be waiting many more years for a game with that.

BorisBlade · 2011-04-10, 10:47 AM

Well one thing that would help to keep everyone from having HA or everyone having maxes or AV or whatever, comes down to the certs. Make more depth in the trees and cut off more cert points at a lower BR, aka 20 with the current system. Make it a choice. Then make the certs appropriate cost so maybe you can get your uber max and maybe HA but then you cant afford your bfr unless you want no engi, no med, no hack, maybe not even rexo andno other vehicle other tahn your long ass timer cert. In a situation where you are more limited with your certs and have more specialization, i'm fine with someone having their bfr, its got a long timer so once i solo you in my infantry suit you can sit around for 25 minutes with very little else to do because you couldnt afford anything else.

Each vehicle and weapon should have its ups and downs, it should fill a role. So HA is best up close, fine by me, as long as its not massive. But it should be weaker at medium and longer ranges than say medium assault. (MA needs a bloom reduction or a reduction of the degredation over distance, to help with that imo). BFR's core issue is the one man version. If it took more people, say 2 to gun the basic and 3 for the big boy, then its not so bad. Its slow as hell and the size of a freakin building so you rarely miss hitting it, esp the gunner variant so its not hard to get a ton of damage onto it and take it out. I personally would have no issues with them being in PSN if they were not the one man army. Its alot of certs and a long timer and the pilot would not be able to gun. Now obviously they would look totally different, prob not mechs, cause as a gunner in the current ones the arm guns can only fire forward in a limited arc, crappy if you are just a gunner. So the bfrs could easily come back in another version, as long as its not a mech no one would notice it was them.

Hackin, that just needs to be monitored better. Stoppin the free accounts takes care of most all of it. But the designers and the players have to be vigiliant in reporting and adressing those people doin it. Nothin to get all upset about.

Yes SoE is the worst MMO company i have ever seen, period. Terribly managed, terrible (aka non-existant) advertising. I mean the box art and ads and even videos for the game are awful and often dont even look like the same game, i would never play what they advertise. I sometimes dream Blizzard grabbed the PS franchise and took over runnin it....of course then i dream it gets gear grinds and i lose interest. But i would love for someone with an IQ above 85, who honestly loves the game to take over managing it.

I need Oprah monies. I would buy the franchise, and get it done right.

TRex · 2011-04-10, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

But i would love for someone with an IQ above 85, who honestly loves the game to take over managing it.

I need Oprah monies. I would buy the franchise, and get it done right.

I look on these forums and ideas are bursting from people heads . I wish the producers job was to play the game for 4 hrs a day then go into the office and shout '' fix the fuckin lasher , I can't hit a wall with it'' or something similar for the next 4 hrs.

DviddLeff · 2011-04-10, 11:56 AM

It comes down to lack of foresight on the devs part; often solving a problem or implementing a new feature without considering the consequences.

CR5 perks and the BR increase all had long term consequences which took years to manifest themselves, and when they did spoiled the game.

BFRs and the rexo buff both had immediate consequences that were never properly corrected.

Third person ruins combat balance between attackers and defenders. While agile drivers spoils class balance and turns combat vehicles into disposable transports.