Equal but Different?

[Senyu]

Seeing another thread about specilization and subcerts which seemed like interesting idea but faced agaisn't points of equal playing field and having all the weapons/vehicals etc be the same in everyones hands making it balanced.

And so I thought, how do we keep the game balanced as above while adding variety (if we want) to the individual player.

So this thread is on ideas on how to make an individual more unique while still balanced with other players. The requirments I imagine would conisist of mind boggling amount of choices that are accessable to all. Okay maybe not mind boggling but a fair amount.

And here is my 2 cents for it.

Weapon Modifications

In this, weapons can be modified and improved on for varying styles of play. Along with weapon mods. Examples of this are as follows
-Lighten:Weapon becomes lighter, increasing speed while armed but reducing damage
For this say VS soldier with Punisher out, his movement speed normally is reduced while carrying the weapon, but this would keep that speed the same as if he weren't hold it while reducing damage for that weapon. Implants such as surge are unusable still while holding the weapon.

-Enhanced Reload:Weapon Reloads faster
This would be a percentage in reload, in effect it would benifit a weapon with a longer reload much more than say a pistol

This are purely weapon mods, and each one that would be in would have to be considerably balanced. How much damage should be reduced for lighten? Will all weapons have access to this? Unique differences that still make the battlefield even and assesible for all. These mods could be similair to Certs in how many you have access to at once or done like implants

[Mightymouser]

I don't really see how this solves the problem of a BR1 and a BR20 both having an equal chance at winning a 1v1 fight?

The dynamic in PlanetSide is set so that as you gain BR you get the abilities to do more things; but you can always only do one thing at a time. Meaning as a BR20 you can be a medic/eng/driver/Rexo/Max whatever. But when you're standing at the back door you you only have one load out, and a BR1 (or raise it to BR6 to give room for an implant) can have the same load out; thus the equal playing field.

If you give a BR20 more of these 'enhancements'; he has advantages that a BR1 (6) cannot obtain until he also reaches a higher BR...

[Senyu]

The player regardless of BR will have access to these. Here, this setup will probably be better.

All modfications are avaliable to everyplayer. Each weapon may only hold 1 type of modification. Modified weapons can only be spawned when you faction controls a technology plant, and you obtain the modified weapon from a tower or base. Weapon modifications are set ahead of time and are on a seperate interace. So if you spawn a preset favorite with modified weapons at an AMS, you will receive your equipment, the weapon however will not have the modification and must be replaced with one that meets requirements above.



There, in this sense all players have access with a variety of options giving you a more unqiue feel. And the modifications become a tactical tool in which to increase your prefrence of playstyle. Please note that all modifications must be balanced and cannot be OP. Little things like Lighten are an example. Please no INCREASE DAMAGE BY 2X. Which is ridiculous

[Mightymouser]

Oh I see, I suppose it'd be workable in that case then; balancing would take a ton of work though. I mean it's already difficult to balance the HA's as it is, if you have to further factor in how each weapon responds to various attachments; people might start going cross-eyed...

[Senyu]

Lol, agreed. Each modfication would require alot of work to be implemented fairly but would be worth it I think.

On regards of say heavy weapon such as Lancer. Forget if its like this now, but having a Lancer out instead of a punisher would slow you down more. But with lighten, a Lancer moving speed would be equal to as if you carried a punisher. You can see how it scales down.

[TRex]

Only thing I can see that keeps the BR1=BR20 thing and allows balance is merits unlocking visual modification , so I can put 'daisycutter' on side of my reaver , or 'glitterfail66' on my decimator , and so on . Notches on the side of my lasher , shit like that.

[DviddLeff]

In my upgrade project I have weapon mods as both an extra cert point or unlocked separately as part of the merit system.

Yes a new player standing toe to toe with a veteran needs to be a fair fight. However if Hess modifications are balanced, as they are in BFBC2 then it will work fine; I certainly had no trouble beating more advanced players in that game before I had every mod available.

The risk is there however; look at recent CoD games where unlocks do unbalance the game drastically, such as the dual shotguns and 20 foot knife range.

As long as they are balanced it will work well, and give people more to play for, and encourage them to focus on a set role and get better at it.

[CutterJohn]

Make the weapon mods part of the cert and I'd love to include it. You cert MA, and get to use MA, including the attachments for MA. The cert gives you the general capability, the mods allow you to alter your weapon a bit to better suit personal preference. I would also accept having access to several weapons that are variations on a theme from that single cert. A slighter stronger version with worse handling, better suited for close range, and a slightly weaker version with better handling, etc.

[Peacemaker]

If you want to do something like this it should be limited to MA only. Also there needs to be a benefit to NOT having a mod on your weapon. Moding a weapon should only change its stats a little in a way that it changes the play style slightly from the original. If there is no benefit (or negative to having ANY Mod) it will make EVERYONE get mods.

[BorisBlade]

I kinda like the idea of customizing, although more so on vehicles. And not really the weapons since that just ends up with less variety if you can get multiple roles with one vehicle. I want to customize armor versus speed/acceleration. Or maybe i get or give up some special attribute of a vehicle in exchange for somethin else.

For example i can put on reinforced armor plating on my deliverer, but that would lower its top speed and acceleration. Or maybe the armor would remove its ability to travel across water and only a little less speed.

You can do the reverse of this too for speed or armor or whatever else you want to tweak.

The problem is, you can easily make vehicles that once modified will remove the need for other vehicles and lower overall variety. So in the larger scheme it may not be a good idea atleast in that implimentation.

Maybe the tweaks would be based on the armor you wear. Aka "pilot" armor instead of rexo or agile. It has less armor, less space and only room for MA sized weapon. But allows you to get more from the vehicle, aka, x% speed boost or maybe your suit merges with the "smart nano armor" and makes it work better improving your vehicle's armor a bit. Or maybe gives some other benefit. Somethin non firepower related. This pilot suit is available for like 1 cert. It wouldnt be required and only gave boosts say in the 20% range so you will be fine without it. (for comparison vehicle shields give 30%) But it lets those of us who like to drive, the ability to specialize a bit.

I know thats less variety but i want to avoid adding too much as it can bland out the vehicles. Being able to choose too many options can keep you from making each vehicle unique. So it has to be done right. Thats one issue with BFR's. You can do too much with them. The weapon switchin/customization sounds like fun but makes for a bad game in the end with very little variety and less fun. Better to have multiple vehicles for all the roles the BFR can fill with just one. Its like if you could Take your deli and add AA or grenade launchers etc, you wouldnt need a marauder or a skyguard,esp if you add in armor and speed choices. Its a delicate balance.

[Raymac]

As much as I love this idea, I think any modifications will have to be minor, because 8 years in, people are still arguing about balance.

[BorisBlade]

Originally Posted by Raymac

As much as I love this idea, I think any modifications will have to be minor, because 8 years in, people are still arguing about balance.

Honestly i think people should not be allowed to comment on balance unless you play every side alot and know the actual numbers you "think" you know.

I've learned alot doin that. Most things in the game are very well balanced. Some things may not be great and some things in game i wish were changed because they are not fun, balanced yeah, fun no.

As long as the tr complain about the lasher and the vs complain about the jackhammer and the nc complain about the mcg, then its all good. As long as everyone is complaining then its prob balanced. I have seen balanced things tho get nerfed or buffed just due to players' perception, which was totally wrong. I constantly heard about the prowler being low damage when in fact its the highest by far even with only one gunner. I heard about how dumb it was for people to fight using deliverers when in fact its one of the best and most versitile vehicles. Balance is often a psychological problem. Same thing i see when playin WoW. You can convice people stuff is balanced doin minor things that in reality do nothing. Its all about perception. (aka people are dumb sheep)

I try to play every side, it lets you see their strengths and weaknesses, i also try to get real hard numbers for things. You can test weapon damage, rates of fire, etc easily enough on the various target types to get real numbers. You wanna know how many raider gunners do you need to get as much or more than a deli? Do i want to use my flak or 12mm on my skyguard when hittin ground targets and turrets? Which weapon will kill infantry faster on my vehicle, etc etc. I used to keep a page updated with every single bit of info like that. Its what got us to start using the deliverers so much. It helped us to figure out cool strats on other vehicles as well that we never realized worked so well. There was no guesswork, there was no "it feels like it does too little" it either did or didnt. Also made arguing for balance when you could show the numbers much easier and reasonable.

[Furret]

arguing about balance is so subjective though.

If you're a player who doesn't move when you shoot, you're going to think a certain weapon is overpowered, because it works well against your playstyle

If you like to stand really close to your buddies, a weapon like the lasher is going to be very effective.

Players complain about balance because they specifically can't win against an enemy using an 'overpowered weapon.'