Cloakers and jacking

[Huma]

Originally Posted by HawkEye

You can suport them by healing, repairing, and rezzing.

Yup and I do that when I'm with my team.

[headcrab13]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I would like there to be an infiltration suit that has armor, and a medium sized gun. Once you start shooting, the cloaking field shorts out and needs 30s or a minute to be able to turn back on. Would be a good secondary style of cloaking imo.

THIS. I'd love to see something like this, but I suspect most people would consider it overpowered. Another solution that might be more widely accepted is a medium inf suit that can only cloak for a certain amount of time.

For instance, you could run up to a base with your squad, uncloaked, and as they make their way to the main door, you activate your suit and take an alternate route to the roof. Your suit may only be invisible for 30-60 seconds, but it would be enough time to sneak past certain people, through busy parts of a base, or to flank around a heavy gunner and take him out undetected.

-HC13

[EASyEightyEight]

I can tell I'm still invisible to society as a whole >.> At least the cops pass me when I'm the reason they turned their lights on in the first place.

WTH man, wth.

TL;DR Didn't I already suggest that VERY idea!?

[Erendil]

Huma, after reading through your comments in this thread I get the impression that you are thinking about PS2 way too much in PS1 terms. The class system in PS2 is not your typical RPG pick-one-class-and-now-your-stuck-with-it-for-life kind of class. As I understand it there will be no limits to the number of classes you can advance in, and no limits to how often you can switch between classes as long as you're near a terminal.

So, if you want to spend some time in Agile in a more upfront role, then swap out your cloaker class for a light infantry class that uses Agile. It's the same thing as what you want. A cloaker that's not in an infil suit is no longer a member of the cloaker class. You are now one of the "light infantry" classes, and as such you will have access to that class's customizable weapons when you start investing in skills for that class.

And I have a feeling we'll have access to at least a small number of basic classes from the very start without having to spend any points on it, too (if not all of them).

Plus, if the Suppressor exists in PS2 it will already be more effective in combat than the PS1 Suppressor. Higby has said that weapons in PS2 will be significantly more deadly than they are in PS1, which means that infantry tactics will naturally play more of a role, and what weapon you're carrying will play less. And since there will be damage bonuses for headshots with some weapons I have a feeling the Suppressor will get at least a slight bonus for a headshot since it is a rifle of sorts (well, more of a tactical SMG really) that requires accurate shooting to be effective.

I gotta say though I got a good laugh at the idea of cloakers planting immobilizing devices on vehicles. I had this vision of a team of TR heading back to their Marauder they parked outside only to find a boot on all of its wheels and a ticket stuck to the windshield from the Vanu DMV telling them they had to pay a fine to the Soveriegnty to get the boots removed....

Oh, and I too would love to see a cloaking ghillie suit available to snipers, and I hope that the Devs create the sniper class(es) to have more of a sniper/scout role.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

I can tell I'm still invisible to society as a whole >.> At least the cops pass me when I'm the reason they turned their lights on in the first place.

WTH man, wth.

TL;DR Didn't I already suggest that VERY idea!?

Its not the first time I've suggested it around here. And even those other times were almost undoubtedly not the first time it has been suggested. Just be happy someone agrees with you rather than complaining you didn't the credit you feel you deserve.

[Huma]

Originally Posted by Erendil

Huma, after reading through your comments in this thread I get the impression that you are thinking about PS2 way too much in PS1 terms. The class system in PS2 is not your typical RPG pick-one-class-and-now-your-stuck-with-it-for-life kind of class. As I understand it there will be no limits to the number of classes you can advance in, and no limits to how often you can switch between classes as long as you're near a terminal.

So, if you want to spend some time in Agile in a more upfront role, then swap out your cloaker class for a light infantry class that uses Agile. It's the same thing as what you want. A cloaker that's not in an infil suit is no longer a member of the cloaker class. You are now one of the "light infantry" classes, and as such you will have access to that class's customizable weapons when you start investing in skills for that class.

And I have a feeling we'll have access to at least a small number of basic classes from the very start without having to spend any points on it, too (if not all of them).

Plus, if the Suppressor exists in PS2 it will already be more effective in combat than the PS1 Suppressor. Higby has said that weapons in PS2 will be significantly more deadly than they are in PS1, which means that infantry tactics will naturally play more of a role, and what weapon you're carrying will play less. And since there will be damage bonuses for headshots with some weapons I have a feeling the Suppressor will get at least a slight bonus for a headshot since it is a rifle of sorts (well, more of a tactical SMG really) that requires accurate shooting to be effective.

I gotta say though I got a good laugh at the idea of cloakers planting immobilizing devices on vehicles. I had this vision of a team of TR heading back to their Marauder they parked outside only to find a boot on all of its wheels and a ticket stuck to the windshield from the Vanu DMV telling them they had to pay a fine to the Soveriegnty to get the boots removed....

Oh, and I too would love to see a cloaking ghillie suit available to snipers, and I hope that the Devs create the sniper class(es) to have more of a sniper/scout role.

True your not stuck in a role but at tue same time your inherently going to be less effective as someone who specializes in that role. I guess what I'm saying really is that I'd like to see some more flexibility in cloakers really. And that visual regarding a boot device is exactly what I was thinking. It would be on par with jacking vehicles in PS1 without the additional balancing issues.

[Atuday]

First off I'm not a cloaker and I hate you little back stabbing $#!^$ but I am all for the idea of giving cloakers more options. As much as I hate them I feel sorry for them mostly due to killing or detecting them via random fire. I would like to see cloakers that can truly one stab kill like in tf2. I would also like it if they can go places other characters in armor can not.

The one thing I felt was truly lacking is the power to plant bombs quickly and easily. Nothing sucked for me more than when one smart cloaker would get an emp mine in the base and stop all our tanks and infantry implants. Sadly though it took so long to get in place and plant these things that getting away afterword was in my mind to hard for the player. An MCG or lash spam could find and kill a cloaker fast with no implants needed. This needs a bit of balancing don't you think?

[Kechiro]

Originally Posted by Erendil

Oh, and I too would love to see a cloaking ghillie suit available to snipers, and I hope that the Devs create the sniper class(es) to have more of a sniper/scout role.

This.

I think maybe an actual "cloaking" device might be a bit OP'd since we're at ranged anyway. Though I'm rooting for something like a weapon upgrade or something that conceals "muzzle fire" to keep us off radar while shooting or a lighter gun upgrade to conceal movement. Just something to give us some form of hiding to keep those really good positions good positions a little longer.

My only worry is how sniping will be done in this game as opposed to PS1. I'm assuming head shots will be insta kills from a sniper also. So we may get nothing but that as our little perk.

I mainly just hope that they keep sniping a viable form of combat given the number of players and such that will be on the field. On PS1 I've turned myself into a combat sniper of sorts, taking my rifle into stairwell battles and getting kills that way (hard to do since you also run the risk of TKing quite easily).

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Huma

True your not stuck in a role but at tue same time your inherently going to be less effective as someone who specializes in that role. I guess what I'm saying really is that I'd like to see some more flexibility in cloakers really.

I think I see what you’re getting at. You want to be able to play the cloaker class and hack terms, install viruses, immobilize vehicles, etc while in a cloaked suit. But you also want to be able to hop into Agile armour to fight in more intense battles and still be able to use all of your Cloaker “non-combat” skills (hacking, viruses, immobilization) while being able to use an upgradable rifle-sized weapon of some sort (like Suppressor or Sweeper) as well. Basically you want the cloaker class to have access to 2 different types of armour and at least some of the “lighter” rifle-sized weapons like the Suppressor, and maybe other P90/MP5-style SMG’s which as a Cloaker you’d be able to upgrade. Is that right?

If so, then yes I agree. The Cloaker class should have access to an unarmoured infil suit like in PS1 that only has pistol slots, and an Agile suit that protects like Agile armour but can’t equip the “heavier” infantry weapons (like HA, ESAV/Deci’s, Bolt driver). So in PS1 terms you’d have one 3x9-sized rifle slot that can’t hold the larger 3x12 weapons.

And, to extrapolate further, I think something similar should apply to all Classes: Having more than 1 armour-type available, but customized such that they differentiate between how many “light” (i.e. - 3x9) and “heavy” (3x12) weapons they can carry. That way each Class could vary their combat role a little bit while still being able to use all of their "non-combat" skills.

This could balance out the Ghillie suit for Snipers as well. So the Sniper class could have access to 3 different armour suits:

"Combat Sniper" Rexo - 1 3x12 slot (for the sniper rifle), 1 3x9 slot (for sweeper, MA, etc), 2 pistol slots, no camouflage.
"Sniper Scout" Agile - 1 3x12 slot, 2 pistol slots, suit has a permanent camouflage pattern on it that's selectable at the term based on your anticipated environment (arctic, desert, forest, night).
"Ghillie" suit - has NO armour, 1 3x12 slot, 2 pistol slots, but instead of the "fringe" Predator-style cloaking ability that I believe PS2 cloakers will get, the armour slowly changes color to match the ground around the sniper so long as the sniper doesn't move. Full color change takes ~1 minute.

[Kechiro]

Keep in mind that there will be no inventory customization in PS2. Classes are apparently already predetermined and players no longer to get to choose what weapons/support items they can take with them and instead must settle for what the class comes with.

Good or bad, we'll see come beta I guess. I think they should give us an inventory so that we can still customize what we take into battle with us, but limit it to things that only that class could take. For example a sniper would get his sniper rifle and no other guns or maybe just a pistol weapon.

However the way they have it planned has me a little worried, but not too badly just yet.

[Huma]

Originally Posted by Kechiro

Keep in mind that there will be no inventory customization in PS2. Classes are apparently already predetermined and players no longer to get to choose what weapons/support items they can take with them and instead must settle for what the class comes with.

Good or bad, we'll see come beta I guess. I think they should give us an inventory so that we can still customize what we take into battle with us, but limit it to things that only that class could take. For example a sniper would get his sniper rifle and no other guns or maybe just a pistol weapon.

However the way they have it planned has me a little worried, but not too badly just yet.

Yeah your stuck with gear but as you unlock more you'll get to mix and match. Kinda like the Battlefield series where you could unlock new weapons and equipment then switch them out. Not a bad system really just means no inventory management.

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by Huma

Not a bad system really just means no inventory management.

If they go down that route while still staying true to PlanetSide's extremely wide role diversity, the spawn-as class/kit list is gonna be substantial.

[Senyu]

Just skimming threads but to me the cloakers need more versatility in their roles especially vehicle jacking is out of order. Sure their great at infiltrating bases and hacking. And I've never seen the infil medic but that sounds cool. And the lucky kills they get when they find a target all by their lonesome. But it still doesn't seem enough. Perhaps increasing Infil only options would allow more variety and interesting/fun gameplay?

If more Cloaker things would be added exactly what role would they fit? Defensive/Offensive/Support

I see them more along the lines of receiving things that will benifit the forward offensive and support. And also abilities that focus on more sabatoge things.

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by Senyu

And I've never seen the infil medic but that sounds cool.

A.med/engi infils were common enough at one point to have a dev make a snide comment about it once. I ran that as one of my kits for the duration of my time specializing in infil. It was great when it worked and you didn't get lit up by plasma or DL sweeps. I'd like to see that and many more roles for infils in PS2. There isn't a shooter that's gone farther than just "invis from point A to point B, now assault" for cloaking units besides PS. Dev's got a great opportunity, hope they get creative.


However, I want to be totally clear about this. If PS2 has the same detection scheme and quickly reversible list of actions that PS1 has for infils, it doesn't matter what you let them do. There will be no place for them in game.

[Senyu]

Agreed, hope cloakers have a much more active role to play besides say just killing stragellers