Definition of 'Selling Power' - Page 10

jollytraveller · 2011-09-14, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Senyu

See, this is the problem with F2P model for a game such as Planetside 2 is that there really hasn't been one thats very good. Unless I'm just completly unaware of one, I havent seen any F2P version of games that can easily be a monthly subscription game.

And that worries me, because we don't know of a succesfull way of a F2P that doesnt sell power, have a cash shop, seperate the players, or is just generally poor quality. Perhaps they found a good version and it might be very succesful. But until they come out with the details, we are only speculating what other games have done with their success/fail stories and that can only go so far.

The World of Tanks F2P model works perfectly I think.

There are very, very few things in the game that you can pay for that you cannot earn for free. Granted it takes a little longer to level yourself, but not dramatically so.

The crucial difference is that to actually play your high level tanks consistantly requires investing real money into a premium account in order for you to afford the repairs to your vehicles. If you choose not to pay for a premium account, yes you can still play tier 10 tanks...... just not all the time. You are obliged to drop down to lower level tiers in order to save the money up to play your larger vehicles.

I'm not saying this system should be applied to Planetside, although I'm usre something could be created. A system where each weapon and vehicle has a credit value and you can either pay real cahs for credits or build them up in game. The key is that the weapon itself cannot be bought it needs to be earned. How much you then use it is dependant on other factors.

I am personally nervous about F2P models but my point is that there are systems out there that don't work too badly and don't affect balance that much. Ultimately, subscription fees are considered an out-dated approach to generating profits so like it or not PS2 is almost sure to generate it's revenue in other ways. I don't think micro-transactions have to been seen as the ultimate evil if they are implemented correctly.

Gandhi · 2011-09-14, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by jollytraveller

The World of Tanks F2P model works perfectly I think.

Really? I think it's a perfect example of what not to do. You buy "gold" for real money, then spend that gold on premium ammo and tanks. Outside of the store gold is only available through special events and contests. That's basically selling power, because you make gold so hard to come by through other means.

Whether this could work in Planetside depends on how easy it is to earn "credits" by playing the game. If you make it too hard then you're really blurring the line between selling convenience and selling power. I think that line is already blurry enough to begin with. IMO best thing to do would be to tie it to BEP, balancing the cost of new content is something that will have to be done through testing.

ECM · 2011-09-14, 02:37 AM

I have to agree with what basti is saying. He is making the most sense on this thead by far and I mean far. We haven't even seen what is for sell in the cash shop, so don't go crying about it, please.

I am also not a fan of a cash shop/ microtransactions as well. PS2 needs numbers and with SOE you gotta do what you gotta do.

I do know the "FPS" player is not going to like a subscription, but is cool with making microtransactions. Just look at all the map packs and pre-order bling that comes with just about every FPS today. Those all cost extra, BAM!

Brusi · 2011-09-14, 09:42 AM

imagine you bought an 03 lasher for $15, then they nerfed it...

Crator · 2011-09-14, 12:53 PM

Shit happens. I think I'd have same reaction if I didn't purchase it and gained it in-game. Plus, there is a notice before entering the game that says "Content is suspect to be changed upon developers wishes."

jollytraveller · 2011-09-14, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Gandhi

Really? I think it's a perfect example of what not to do. You buy "gold" for real money, then spend that gold on premium ammo and tanks. Outside of the store gold is only available through special events and contests. That's basically selling power, because you make gold so hard to come by through other means.

Whether this could work in Planetside depends on how easy it is to earn "credits" by playing the game. If you make it too hard then you're really blurring the line between selling convenience and selling power. I think that line is already blurry enough to begin with. IMO best thing to do would be to tie it to BEP, balancing the cost of new content is something that will have to be done through testing.

Gold buys you premium tanks which are absolutely terrible and just for novelty. And yes, you can buy premium ammo but firstly it's not great and secondly it is ridiculously expensive to the point that very, very few people buy it, especially when coupled with the fact that the miss rate in WoT can be quite high making wastage of "paid for" ammo annoying. I play with a dozen other friends and literally not one of them has ever spent any gold on ammo.

In order to level through the tanks that 90% of the playerbase use 90% of the time and to buy all the good modules / consumables you only need silver which can be made by playing the game....... for free. Personally, beyond buying $20 worth of gold to get me started I'd never put more money into it. For me it's now a free game that I can play to a pretty high level.

Talek Krell · 2011-09-14, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Gandhi

Really? I think it's a perfect example of what not to do. You buy "gold" for real money, then spend that gold on premium ammo and tanks.

Premium ammo is for chumps. There is no situation in which it is not a waste of money. Premium tanks are almost exclusively target practice. The Lowe is the only notable exception and that's mostly because it's a higher tier than the others. Most WoT gold is spent on buying the "Premium Account" at a price of about $10 for 30 days.

SKYeXile · 2011-09-14, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Gandhi

Really? I think it's a perfect example of what not to do. You buy "gold" for real money, then spend that gold on premium ammo and tanks. Outside of the store gold is only available through special events and contests. That's basically selling power, because you make gold so hard to come by through other means.

Whether this could work in Planetside depends on how easy it is to earn "credits" by playing the game. If you make it too hard then you're really blurring the line between selling convenience and selling power. I think that line is already blurry enough to begin with. IMO best thing to do would be to tie it to BEP, balancing the cost of new content is something that will have to be done through testing.

in world of tanks, yeas gold ammo is essentially power, i always carry some rounds for if im ina situation where i cant penerate a glacis with regular ammo and i cant maneuver to penetrate the side. But PS2 does not need to sell ammo or "premium" items, world of tanks makes most of there money by people transfering XP and upgrading to a premium account.

no reason why PS2 cant use Satation cash for those 2 things...earn XP with a HA...transfer that XP to a reaver...you still earnt the XP...you're just paying a transfer fee.

Talek Krell · 2011-09-14, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

no reason why PS2 cant use Satation cash for those 2 things...earn XP with a HA...transfer that XP to a reaver...you still earnt the XP...you're just paying a transfer fee.

That's probably not a workable example, but applying the idea would be interesting. I had forgotten about the free XP.

I would like to point out one other thing about WoT's premium ammo. If you can't get through an enemy's armor with standard shells, even from the front in most cases, then it is probably because he completely outclasses you. Even in this situation you can always switch to HE rounds. They will not only do damage, but also break his equipment, which often spells certain doom. I cannot count the number of times I have tracked somebody way out of my league and watched him get disassembled by artillery and friendly heavies.

SKYeXile · 2011-09-15, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

That's probably not a workable example, but applying the idea would be interesting. I had forgotten about the free XP.

I would like to point out one other thing about WoT's premium ammo. If you can't get through an enemy's armor with standard shells, even from the front in most cases, then it is probably because he completely outclasses you. Even in this situation you can always switch to HE rounds. They will not only do damage, but also break his equipment, which often spells certain doom. I cannot count the number of times I have tracked somebody way out of my league and watched him get disassembled by artillery and friendly heavies.

perhaps your right on that, i forgot that Planetside system plans to be time base and not use based. anyhoo.

as for the ammo, i drive an E50, its impossible to penetrate an E75 glacis with standard ammo, unless your attack angle is extremely favourable, in that case i switch to gold ammo, you can penerate a maus if you hit it in the right spot, but the E75 has no machine gun and the veiwport is pretty hard to hit. HE just does not do enough damage in that case. for sure though, tracking somebody in the open when you have arts is win, even if you don't sometimes, just tracking them and having them spinout so you can side or rear penetrate is win.

exLupo · 2011-09-15, 02:06 AM

The EVE thing is weird. The community is violently against selling power. However, at the same time, dual boxing is so prevalent that CCP runs sales on secondary accounts. 33% off. What's that get you? Most importantly a second character. Your main trains combat skills, your alt trains financial skills to fund it. Your main trains combat. Your alt trains combat. You run them concurrently. There's a guy in our corp that does 3 combat toons at once, it's crazy. None of this even touches on the way alts are used to circumvent the "one universe" reputation currency. Spy, scam and thief alts abound.

No no, don't sell power in the cash shop. Doubling simultaneous skill availability and combat power tho, that's ok. Just as long as it isn't in the skill shop. The threads against system upgrades that negatively impact dual(or more) boxing are just as heated as any discussion of ships for cash.

Not all games are dual box friendly but EVE is one of the best for it and players have been buying power there for years. Nothing to do with PS2 but all of these "EVE players hate power sales!" are, when viewed on the whole, incorrect. There's some serious hypocrisy rolling on the EVE official forums when it comes to buying a leg up on the opposition.

CutterJohn · 2011-09-15, 09:32 AM

In the EVE players defense, I can understand the thought that maybe CCP is getting a bit greedy. Its already virtually required to have 2 or more accounts to compete in the game. If you happen to be a capital ship pilot, especially a titan or mothership pilot, you will want even more than that.

To add a money store on top of all the extra subs they are buying is a bit much. Sadly this argument is rarely used, its mostly just a knee jerk 'DONT SELL POWER!!!!11' that ignores the elephant sitting there on the couch munching your snacks.