Planetside 2 - A critical look - Page 7

FIREk · 2011-09-19, 06:15 PM

Were there truly serious consequences in UO, really?
True, you had to run to a healer, then run back past mobs and hopefully reclaim your gear. But you didn't die nearly as often as in a game with actual action in it.
Plus, you could just cut your losses and run around in shit gear all the time, so that you never lost anything worth crying over. Just resurrect at a town, restock your shit at the bank and go farm skeletons the rest of the day.
You go kill some serious mobs? You'll likely be with friends who will quite possibly get your stuff back and resurrect you.
Your character's lifetime in UO (by "lifetime" I mean time between permanent gear losses) was days, sometimes weeks, even months.
In an FPS it's minutes up to an hour, maybe. Consequences need to be scaled accordingly.

Even in EVE, the consequences of getting blown up, and even popped, aren't as ass-rippingly painful as someone might think.
If you went into combat in a clone with implants you could barely afford, you're a moron.
If you've flown in a ship fitted with stuff you could barely afford, you're a double moron.
If your clone didn't have enough SP capacity, and you let yourself get popped, you're a triple moron.
Most people would fly decent ships for their budget (like a cheap T2-fitted BC), built for free by their corp, with minerals mined by the player himself/herself. That, or the entire ship is sponsored by the corp.
You go camp or gank something, possibly get your ship blown up, then fly your pod for a replacement ship and you're back in the action in minutes. If you get popped, you respawn, buy a shuttle, make some tea and autopilot to where you had to be.
Wow, these consequences are so serious, they could almost make someone feel like a grown-up!
And, again, your ship's lifetime in EVE was anything from hours to months. Even then the consequences weren't so severe.

There's no room for long-lasting consequences in a fast-paced action game.
Granted, WoW/EQ clones are typically slow-paced and could have some consequences for dying, but that wouldn't add much to the game, other than an, ultimately pointless, time-sink.
Back when I played UO, every now and then some roving band of min-maxed PKs wold have curb-stomped and face-blasted me into monochrome land. Then came the consequences. I rarely died and always had the best gear I could afford, so they were pretty severe.
When I'm playing an FPS, should I have to use mats I gathered over the course of two weeks, then spend half a day re-crafting my awesome, exceptional quality gear (or finding crafters to do that for me)? Absolutely not.

Consequences in PS1 consisted of a longer respawn time, plus losing the battle once the enemy blew up the last useful respawn point in the area. The former was annoying, and the latter was painful for the ego, especially if it resulted in your empire being raped and pushed off the continent.
In PS2, you will also be able to pull out customized gear and customized vehicles - losing that will have cost you resources that you might be saving up for a long-term gain, like shortcutting some skill training.
For an FPS, that's consequences enough.

So what is your point, other than being "sarcastic" or whatever you call it?

Raymac · 2011-09-19, 06:24 PM

Yeah, I remember when I played my first MMO. It was Everquest, and the death penalty was losing XP. It fucking BLOWS. I can understand how you might want that because it does add tension, but you are in a steep minority that wants to see that feature return to MMOs.

Frankly, if more people wanted those kinds of death penalties, you'd see more games with them. If you want that kind of shit, just go play Ghosts'n' Goblins.

IceyCold · 2011-09-19, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by I Hate MMORPGs

Ultima Online pre UO:R was the greatest MMORPG in the history of man. My issue is that games like PS2 and every other subsequent MMORPG or MMO(random letters) fails to address that a game needs to have consequences or it isn't exciting.

Being shot to death only to respawn immediately with all your stuff is carebear to the max. How am I as a player supposed to get amped up about a kill or be killed environment when being killed has no consequence other than some minor time-sink.

So, your point is that games are not "hardcore" enough for you since UO; what exactly was hardcore about UO? "Oh I died and lost some stuff that I can replace with more time!" That is so freaking hardcore brah! Hey, that sounds like something you pointed out....

How am I as a player supposed to get amped up about a kill or be killed environment when being killed has no consequence other than some minor time-sink.

Sooo UO didn't amp you up much huh? Guess it was just too carebear

No really, please explain this one to me I would love to understand how any game is hardcore? Hardcore died out in the arcade where I got charged a quarter every time I died; since then it's just a loss of time. And I have news for you, that's not really a big deal since I would not be playing a game if I did not have time to spare.

2coolforu · 2011-09-19, 06:27 PM

If I wanted a severe penalty for dying I'd go play real life.

I mean don't we play games to have fun, or for escapism from real life. Having these drastic kicks-in-the-balls in computer games is retarded, it would be like if you lost a game of football/baseball/rugby/american football/tennis the opposing side just came over and snapped all your gear, punched you in the gut and said "You lost". Isn't the entire point of playing a game to stroke your ego and have fun, and pretty much nothing else. If you get killed in an FPS it's because you fucked up or you were outskilled, in the same way if you lose a real life 'game' its because you didn't train enough, you fucked up or you were outclassed and in both cases the penalty is the same, your ego takes a kicking.

FIREk · 2011-09-19, 06:49 PM

It may be because kids think they're like grown-ups if they have to "suffer" virtual "consequences" for virtual defeats. By golly, it may even be more mature than going to school or doing chores! Either way, it's all definitely easier than getting and doing a job, having enough monies, building relationships and all that other stuff you can do in real life.

Another "valid reason" is people with low self-esteem in real life. If you play a game that shits a time-sink on your face when you die, you can (apparently) think of yourself as a "hardcore" gamer. You can then proceed to feel superior to those other "casuals" and "carebears", even if you're a perpetually jobless, forever alone, 30-ish slob, living in your parents' basement.

In reality, when you're a big boy, with limited free time that actually has some value, you want to get more fun out of a game, instead of wasting it on "consequences".

2coolforu · 2011-09-19, 07:09 PM

What really turned me off EVE was the fact that you'd probably have to spend days working to replace a ship so you'd have to covet and protect it rather than actually have fun with it, I wouldn't have the time to waste to spend all this time replacing my ships. I have more valuable things to do than spend 8 hours ingame having an ingame job to replace ingame money to get an ingame ship, games are meant to be escapism from real life not real life.

I don't want to have to try and get my 401k ingame, only to have to pay my income tax then spend 8 hours a day working a cashier to get money for my food and rusty iron sword to go and kill goblins only to catch tetanus and 20k in medical bills from cutting my finger on a rose-thorn.

I Hate MMORPGs · 2011-09-19, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by IceyCold

No really, please explain this one to me I would love to understand how any game is hardcore? Hardcore died out in the arcade where I got charged a quarter every time I died; since then it's just a loss of time. And I have news for you, that's not really a big deal since I would not be playing a game if I did not have time to spare.

I'm simply saying that there was nothing more exciting than having a Halberd of Vanquishing and dominating only to have it taken from you by a hoard of newbies. If you have nothing to lose (or gain) then you're basically just grinding a battleground for welfare epics. Meh to that.

2coolforu · 2011-09-19, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by I Hate MMORPGs

I'm simply saying that there was nothing more exciting than having a Halberd of Vanquishing and dominating only to have it taken from you by a hoard of newbies. If you have nothing to lose (or gain) then you're basically just grinding a battleground for welfare epics. Meh to that.

But that's not what Planetside is about, it's an FPS with customization and other cosmetic features added. It's not about grinding up to get your +1000 Mace of Doom, it's about grinding up to change your gun to what you want it to be and to your playstyle, not just to simply 'Make it Better'. The reason its an MMO with fees is because the performance drain of having 1000's of people is simply not possible with a totally free model with just a box price. To have 2000 people on a battlefield and have the FPS level of ping and framerate you complain about on your blog you need a powerful server.

Now you can't simply say "Make it 16 player, that's Halo and it's the same game". Having lots of players means a few things, it adds atmosphere, it adds realism and it adds variance. Now EVE could scale down, instead of 1000 ships we could have 3 battleships and one FC, it works, it's the same game still but would it be EVE. The giant battles add an atmosphere and a feeling that you can't get from just having an 8 v 8 TDM, not only that but Planetside is persistent so rounds aren't just like a Hellish purgatory of constantly repeating meaningless gamemodes, your progress stays there until someone erases it.

Another thing to consider is the adding of specialization, with 16 guys you can't specialize, you don't have the manpower to have an artillery detachment, a medic detachment, a mech infantry detachment, an airborne detachment and so on and so forth. Having played tactical realism on simulation games it gets better and better the more folks you have as it lets people specialize a role more and more. You can get true combined arms. With 500 people in a battle you can have bombers, artillery, gunships, dropships, armor, APC's, infantry and buggies all fighting without having to worry about giving up half your infantry force. If you have a team of 32 on BF2 filling up a transport chopper puts half your team away from firing guns and into an easy to kill vehicle. However in Planetside the galaxy is just a pawn in a chess game and people can be successful in the 'transport infantry' role, you can have several of these full galaxies and still have sufficient firepower on the ground to not get steamrollered because 30 of your team are getting moved to a better spot. It's all about scaling.

Draep · 2011-09-19, 07:30 PM

Taking the territory is the objective in Planetside and games like it. By losing the territory, I am feeling the consequences of my loss. In fact, that is one of the reasons that drew me to the game.

WoW is truly a consequence free game, as you cannot drop loot or take territory. I hate mmorpgs, you are def a troll and I ain't trying to feed you, but I wonder why you are trolling something so seemingly meaningless.

I mean look at these tools, they reply to your posts with textwalls and valid argument so I guess it's pretty easy, but you're putting in an awful lot of time to troll something, making me think you're serious.

FIREk · 2011-09-19, 07:33 PM

Excitement in a game is cheap and fake. I prefer fast driving and the occasional powerslide, conditions permitting. Even then it's pretty cheap, since I don't do crazy shit in heavy traffic like in the movies, but at least it's real.

My point is, there's no need to shove virtual consequences onto countless people, just because a minority doesn't have anything more exciting to do.

Originally Posted by Draep

I mean look at these tools, they reply to your posts with textwalls and valid argument so I guess it's pretty easy, but you're putting in an awful lot of time to troll something, making me think you're serious.

I think most of us know a troll when we see one. Myself, I like to share my thoughts and, with any luck, discuss my arguments with other forum members. I by far don't intend to influence a troll's "opinion".

XPquant · 2011-09-19, 07:35 PM

My in-game job in eve was a DJ for eve radio, that was damn fun and the tips paid for my widow habit, there were a lot of ways to make isk not all being mundane. I loved eve for the same reason I hated it, meta gaming. Every major player in eve bought his isk with $$$$ or inherited it from someone who did, the economy is so inflated.

I found in eve the worst consequences were those born in trust, death to corp looters! Losing a corporation you built from the ground up for 5 years with your 20 best friends is a moment indeed, it ended my career. Eve was easily the harshest game I have ever played, not because of the game but because of the people. But eve in no way could ever be compared to planetside, you got people paying for 4 subs so they can run 4 toons at once.

P.S. I agree with Draep, in planetside your not fighting for personal gain, the squad or even the outfit, you are fighting for the glory of your empire and the destruction of your enemies.

Baron · 2011-09-19, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by XPquant

...you are fighting for the glory of your empire and the destruction of your enemies.

I cried a little, good times.

**Malorn** · 2011-09-19, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Draep

Taking the territory is the objective in Planetside and games like it. By losing the territory, I am feeling the consequences of my loss. In fact, that is one of the reasons that drew me to the game.

WoW is truly a consequence free game, as you cannot drop loot or take territory. I hate mmorpgs, you are def a troll and I ain't trying to feed you, but I wonder why you are trolling something so seemingly meaningless.

I mean look at these tools, they reply to your posts with textwalls and valid argument so I guess it's pretty easy, but you're putting in an awful lot of time to troll something, making me think you're serious.

Why are you asking a troll why he trolls?

(yes, I am trolling you now)