No Rifles for the HA class???

[Lonehunter]

Just keep in mind we want more teamwork, and less one man armies. If Heavy Assault can take on CQC, AV, and long range infantry, will SOE think that's too many combat roles? I'd honestly like more "rock, paper, scissors" gameplay balance.

I'm really too tired to type out details right now. But basically, to fill every combat role I would rather it take a squad of 6 then 3.

[Arrow]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter

Just keep in mind we want more teamwork, and less one man armies. If Heavy Assault can take on CQC, AV, and long range infantry, will SOE think that's too many combat roles? I'd honestly like more "rock, paper, scissors" gameplay balance.

I'm really too tired to type out details right now. But basically, to fill every combat role I would rather it take a squad of 6 then 3.

FPS should never be rock paper scissors in my opinion. It should be about skill and the user, im kind of frustrated with this class system to be honest.

[EASyEightyEight]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter

Just keep in mind we want more teamwork, and less one man armies. If Heavy Assault can take on CQC, AV, and long range infantry, will SOE think that's too many combat roles? I'd honestly like more "rock, paper, scissors" gameplay balance.

I'm really too tired to type out details right now. But basically, to fill every combat role I would rather it take a squad of 6 then 3.

They couldn't last in a fight indefinitely. They'd still rely on medics to patch up whatever the shield doesn't absorb, and need ammo resupply. Further, with only one heavy weapon at a time, they'd be packing a large gun, and a medium gun, and probably a side arm as well.

Coincidentally, that's why I think they'll combine the thumper and rocklet rifle into a single weapon (modifications adjust how the ammo acts) and work it into the medium sized weaponry slot along side a shotgun and rifle. It would serve as a poor man's AV, but it would be better than wasting bullets.

I imagine the heavy assault class to be the commandos, spartans, shock troops, what-have-you of the Imperial armed forces. They don't fulfill any special role besides "kill, kill, kill!" They don't have jetpacks for easy means of escape, breaching, or perching vantage point. They don't have medical capabilities to stay in the fight after suffering damage, and they don't have any method of repairing or even driving armor or aircraft. Probably can't even plant explosives either.

The heavily armored shock troopers get into the thick of a fight, and they better, with some properly planned load outs, be able to adjust to any fighting situation at least somewhat. Obviously, the heavy will excel, the medium well enough, and the side arm is much more a last resort. I wouldn't be surprised if the handgun could be modified into a single shot grenade launcher, allowing for the trooper to pack a rifle and a CQC AI weapon in the other two slots to cover for the other 2 possible situations.

The MAX suits already offer some versatility in allowing for two different weapons systems at one time - each possibly more effective at their role than anything a foot mobile has access to - and more than likely, they're also packing on far better armor than our shock troopers could ever hope to. About the only weaknesses said trooper can afford is that they're squishier, but they're far more versatile at any one time (again, if equipped intelligently.)

They should still rely on the support troops to keep them pushing forward however.

*EDIT: Regarding my thumper comment. I understand that it doesn't seem to be SOE's intention to allow medics, jump troopers, and possibly engineers rocket launchers, but do keep in mind for packing a thumper, they will likely have to give up their primary means of engaging enemy infantry, the assault rifle. I also don't expect a grenade launcher/rocklet rifle to be all that effective against faster moving targets. They'd probably be good against MAX units and nearby enemy armor if one has an advantageous position over them as well as softening up groups of hostiles. I can't imagine they'll have much use against aircraft however.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter

Just keep in mind we want more teamwork, and less one man armies. If Heavy Assault can take on CQC, AV, and long range infantry, will SOE think that's too many combat roles? I'd honestly like more "rock, paper, scissors" gameplay balance.

I'm really too tired to type out details right now. But basically, to fill every combat role I would rather it take a squad of 6 then 3.

Yea this is an FPS, it should be about skill, not oh well...AI max is hard counter to infantry...ill just bendover now. Sure there is situational things like having the right gun for the right terrain etc. But MMOs in particular like to get into this whole holy trinity of class balance, which is very tired and stale and really not appealing to most people who play games, because they play solo and casual. The game should be designed so its more effective to have people specialised in roles, but by no means required. Planetside had this almost perfect at BR20-23.

[Lonehunter]

So Rock Paper Scissors may have been the wrong term

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

The game should be designed so its more effective to have people specialised in roles, but by no means required. Planetside had this almost perfect at BR20-23.

ReXo-HA/AV has always been the dominating loadout for strait up kills. Sure there's a few people who can get more kills with a Thumper, or Bolt Driver, or a MAX. But the majority goes with the required "Cookie cutter" certs to get the most kills.

That's what I'm afraid of in PS2. I don't want HA to be the best way to kill people. I want Light Assault, MAXs, and Cloakers to be just as effective, but in a different way. Sniper on the ridge? Call a cloaker. Tank or MAX over there? Call the AV/Demo guy. Bunch of infantry in a base? Bring in Heavy Assault.

[Arrow]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter

So Rock Paper Scissors may have been the wrong term


ReXo-HA/AV has always been the dominating loadout for strait up kills. Sure there's a few people who can get more kills with a Thumper, or Bolt Driver, or a MAX. But the majority goes with the required "Cookie cutter" certs to get the most kills.

That's what I'm afraid of in PS2. I don't want HA to be the best way to kill people. I want Light Assault, MAXs, and Cloakers to be just as effective, but in a different way. Sniper on the ridge? Call a cloaker. Tank or MAX over there? Call the AV/Demo guy. Bunch of infantry in a base? Bring in Heavy Assault.

They were useful in PS though. If you were protecting a base with anything other then a medium assault rifle as people were storming from a tower then you were kind of retarded as MA rifles were a lot more effective. The only issue is that CQC was just so prominent in PS that it was almost more effective to roll with HA because certain utilities like surge and Mossy dropping allowed for HA to be so effective most of the time. Still though in the right situations MA rifles were highly effective.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter

So Rock Paper Scissors may have been the wrong term


ReXo-HA/AV has always been the dominating loadout for strait up kills. Sure there's a few people who can get more kills with a Thumper, or Bolt Driver, or a MAX. But the majority goes with the required "Cookie cutter" certs to get the most kills.

That's what I'm afraid of in PS2. I don't want HA to be the best way to kill people. I want Light Assault, MAXs, and Cloakers to be just as effective, but in a different way.

I would like to see that too, but i would not like to see the game require a medic following me around or a guy with AV to take care of maxes.

you can do teamwork just fine by coordinating frags, fire, targets etc without a reliance on other classes. Is the one thing that turns me off other games and why I love planetside so much. I guess battlefield is okay, since you're not totally reliant on a medic or resupply..convenient to have that and av though... but most MMO's i play its "oh well we dont have a healer or tank on, may aswell play something else now" you never had that in planetside, no mater who you had on or what certs you could find something to do, granted you needed required certs to do something more tactical, but generally you dont have to rely on other people.


and HA thumper gets the most kills

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

I would like to see that too, but i would not like to see the game require a medic following me around or a guy with AV to take care of maxes.

you can do teamwork just fine by coordinating frags, fire, targets etc without a reliance on other classes. Is the one thing that turns me off other games and why I love planetside so much. I guess battlefield is okay, since you're not totally reliant on a medic or resupply..convenient to have that and av though... but most MMO's i play its "oh well we dont have a healer or tank on, may aswell play something else now" you never had that in planetside, no mater who you had on or what certs you could find something to do, granted you needed required certs to do something more tactical, but generally you dont have to rely on other people.


and HA thumper gets the most kills

Yep, forced reliance on other players that is implemented for the sole purpose of giving the illusion of teamwork is not a game mechanic I'm too fond of. The organized outfits will already have a large focus on teamwork in their playstyle and they'll use it to get the job done whether or not game mechanics force it on them.

This thread dropped off the first page and I'm giving it a lil' /bump.

So Mr. Higby, can you please clarify this a little for us? Will the Heavy Assault class be able to use Rifles? In addition, will characters using the PS2 Rexo-equivalent be able to carry 2 rifle-sized weapons at once (namely HA, AV, or SA with a Sweeper/rifle as a backup weapon)?

Please Matt, instill us with your wisdom. Inquiring minds want to know...