The "Umph" of Combat - Page 2

Canaris · 2012-01-05, 04:27 AM

Well I for one am ready to hike my skirts over my head and go screaming into the hills who's with me?

Graywolves · 2012-01-05, 04:53 AM

Halo released shortly before it but Planetside had been in development since the 90's....

Besides...Flashiness in my screen doesn't immerse me, just makes me annoyed as fuck that my tool for competing against other players is unreliable because when I get hit or shoot it gets eratic, which leads to just ignoring it. Kind of like how SWTOR has many different melee animations and cool effects but you spend most of your time looking at the UI bars.

I don't know no one else did but I used to actually get scared of dieing in planetside when I first played. I'd be up against a tree and have bullets slamming into it and myself everytime I peaked out.

Things that are put in just to look cool are only distracting and eventually might as well have never been there at all.

-edit-
but this looks fucking awesome

Redshift · 2012-01-05, 08:48 AM

Well don't forget that HaloCE was 16 players on 4 machines over LAN only, it's hardly surprising PS didn't do similar animations when we're talking hundreds on hundreds over 56k modems

NewSith · 2012-01-05, 11:56 AM

Response to the OP, without reading anything in the thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dit9jMTJjOg
http://youtu.be/QScvE-Ubl5s?t=6m47s

FoxBait · 2012-01-05, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

See that's just the thing, they are animations. Not only that but they seem to be hidden. The skeeter falls from behind a building. The soldier that dies falls from behind the rifle. But it's progress from the dramatic "fall on the side, wacky flailing inflatable tube man" animation from Planetside. Hopefully they can get get more animations in for more variety. I would prefer some rag doll though. They mentioned that PhysX would be used didn't they? On what is the question.

I've watched Morto's slow-mo video a few time now and I believe that the death animations are either ragdoll or very good animations. To clarify, there are two soldiers who die during the tower fight, one behind the rifle and one in open view.

Also, notice the blood spray from the soldiers.

Later, when the solder is shooting up at the enemies on the ledge, an explosion rocks the screen. We don't see any staggering or push-back, but there is a distinct camera shake that follows the nearby explosion.

Enhanced death animations, physics governed vehicles (as stated earlier), blood spray, shield flare, and explosion screen shake all seem to point the the "umph" of combat you described.

Now, all I'm trying to do here is point out some things in the video that you may have missed and relate them to the things you're looking for. When it comes down to it, neither of us (or any non-dev on the forums) has any idea how the game will feel when we get our hands on it. Video footage comes close to showing us how it will "feel," but part of the umph will come from how the game reacts to our mouse and keyboard actions.

ArmedZealot · 2012-01-05, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by FoxBait

I've watched Morto's slow-mo video a few time now and I believe that the death animations are either ragdoll or very good animations. To clarify, there are two soldiers who die during the tower fight, one behind the rifle and one in open view.

I don't see that. The animations are the same, but triggered at different intervals. First the right soldier then the left. Both soldiers raise their arms up, fall to the right, and then face down in the dirt. Its a good animation, and there doesn't seem to be any clipping.

If they could add a bit more for where they last took damage. As in getting it head on they would fall on their back, or hit from the back they would fall face first etc. it would look much more professional and polished, that's what halo did and then put ragdoll when the corpse was already on the ground.

Originally Posted by FoxBait

Also, notice the blood spray from the soldiers.

It looks like a place holder effect, which is good news. It shows that it's possible and they can improve on it.

Same goes for the shields. I feel like this could be a really good way to add more distinguishing characteristics between soldiers. The NC could have a bubble shield like the MAX did in PS. Give it a gold or blue glow with a lensing effect and it'd be bad ass. Give the Vanu the current flash but make it a really obnoxious neon purple. The TR could have a blocky Dune shield belt effect but red and there you go. This gives good information as to whom you are shooting at without having to actually kill them and see them on the killspam. It'd be good for the long range combat, or night battles.

Originally Posted by FoxBait

Later, when the solder is shooting up at the enemies on the ledge, an explosion rocks the screen. We don't see any staggering or push-back, but there is a distinct camera shake that follows the nearby explosion.

The explosions are the best thing they have so far. They are really visceral and intense. But you are right, no staggering or push back. It'd be cool if they would add a little more knockback when the tanks fire, and maybe some dust flying up around the vehicle. watch the area around the tanks in this video. (mute it)

It would really help with the more earthy style that the game seems to be trying to accomplish. It would also give the tanks a real sense of power that they seemed to lack in Planetside. When a vehicle gets hit it should get rocked a bit too. Especially if it wasn't moving before hand.

Originally Posted by FoxBait

Now, all I'm trying to do here is point out some things in the video that you may have missed and relate them to the things you're looking for. When it comes down to it, neither of us (or any non-dev on the forums) has any idea how the game will feel when we get our hands on it. Video footage comes close to showing us how it will "feel," but part of the umph will come from how the game reacts to our mouse and keyboard actions.

You're right. To be honest I'll get the game and buy as much as I can justify within the first couple weeks of release. I mean it's Planetside you can't not love it. But what makes Planetside unique is it's atmosphere and setting. Planetside 2 is in a good position to capitalize on it. Bringing in a ton of new players if they do it right and keep the game alive for that much longer. It seems like most of the "umph" I'm talking about is being worked on right now, so I feel like now would be the best time to give my feedback.

FoxBait · 2012-01-05, 11:48 PM

I agree that now is the best time to bring these things up (when they can still be tweaked and worked on). I suspect that we have differing opinions on the necessary level of umph that an MMOFPS should have; you slightly more than me.

But that's just one of the great things about the folks here, I think. We all care so damn much about this game that we're nitpicking low quality video clips, trying to dissect mood and feel of the game. We're defending the work we see, yet point out every way we think it could improve.

Heck, if they can turn a game with hundreds of players on screen into a gritty, getting-close-to-realistic shooter, I'm all for it.

P.S. I really like the idea of the shield flare colors defining the faction you're shooting. That would help out A LOT.

Xyntech · 2012-01-06, 01:06 AM

We did see a few deaths in that video, but to be fair, we didn't really see some of the more visceral types of deaths.

What happens if a 150mm shell slams into someone at point blank range? I doubt the game is going to have them gib, it may not even send them hurtling back like some first person shooters, but I'd bet it's a lot more brutal of a death than just getting dropped by a rifle.

Vehicles versus infantry kills, shotguns, explosives, knife kills, etc. I would expect to see a little extra umph out of all of those.

I felt that what we did see had enough umph for my tastes for a rifle weapon. I don't like it to feel like a pea shooter (planetside 1), but I don't need to feel like I'm unloading a howitzer into someone every time. Save that for the bigger guns and it will have a lot more impact.

It's multiple factors to get that feel. The visual of the weapons, the muzzle effects, the amount of damage they actually do, the way enemies die when the gun kills them, and more than most other factors, the sound.

We've only just begun to hear some of the sound for PS2, so it's hard to judge so far. Ideally I'd hope that all three empires sound badass in their own way. NC should tend to have those big, deep booms in most of their weapons. TR need the best rapid firing sounds, like that slowed down minigun sound from Terminator 2. VS are tricky because of the energy weapons, but hopefully they make them sound both energetic, alien and still awesome.

Personally, i wanna see more vehicle deaths. I wonder if now that vehicles have more advanced physics, if we'll get to see things like a Prowler driving at full speed being blown up, and continuing to careen forwards for a little ways before grinding to a halt.

I hope they can get air crashes to be pretty awesome as well. The tumbling, flaming aircraft in the video was great. I hope that in the final product that aircraft crashing into the ground don't just disintegrate instantly, but leave scattered wreckage strewn about.

ArmedZealot · 2012-01-06, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by FoxBait

I agree that now is the best time to bring these things up (when they can still be tweaked and worked on). I suspect that we have differing opinions on the necessary level of umph that an MMOFPS should have; you slightly more than me.

I think Halo level "umph" is optimal. The weapons used in combat have been modified and upgraded compared to things we use today. I think a more dramatic approach to the damage highlights that fact and makes it easier for you to get the feedback of doing damage to someone else, without the use of the interface. It would also add to the sci-fi setting that the game has.

I do however think that they should focus a little bit more on taking damage than halo did. Rather then audible alerts and red arrows for when I have low health there should be more immersive effects. Heavy breathing, fuzzy vision, screen shake, the "pink" sound that rounds make when striking you. We've had stereo for decades, use it.

I agree with eveything you said Xyntech. Sound is every bit as important to the "umph" as the visual effects (I just don't comment on it because I like to play shooters to music

). I'd like to think that the empires having their own sounds was a given to the developers. And again I agree with your feel for the sounds of the empires, except for the NC which use the guass rifle and such, which the developers gave that high pitch pew similar to the Vanu weapons.

However the easiest way to give them more "umph" is to make them louder than the ambient noise. I remember the first time I fired a shotgun, it scared me, and echoed for what felt like miles. This may be more difficult to do in Planetside, because everyone is shooting at the same time that you would be drowned out in reality. But in a virtual environment I'm sure there is some tricks they could pull. I think they should take the speed of sound into effect also, but take liberties with it for different air densities and such.

Vehicles sounds should be as important the rifles too. If a tank fires, I should be able to hear the bass of it across the battlefield. Same with other explosions. It should let me know that, yes the other side indeed has a tank.

I think they are taking the vehicle deaths as steps in the right directions. It was sad in Planetside, but what we've seen so far has been pretty good. The mossie death was dramatic, bright and flashy. They should take that same approach with other vehicles.

ArmedZealot · 2012-01-06, 02:08 PM

You can see a purple shield flash here, which is different from the yellow that the TR had in the main fight. So they are doing in fact what I had hoped and are distinguishing between the empires. Shweet!

Tikuto · 2012-01-06, 02:27 PM

Ailos · 2012-01-06, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

We've only just begun to hear some of the sound for PS2, so it's hard to judge so far. Ideally I'd hope that all three empires sound badass in their own way. NC should tend to have those big, deep booms in most of their weapons. TR need the best rapid firing sounds, like that slowed down minigun sound from Terminator 2. VS are tricky because of the energy weapons, but hopefully they make them sound both energetic, alien and still awesome.

100% agreed. If you've ever listened to a mediocre orchestra performing, you'll almost always feel bored and uninterested. One that has the enthusiastic players, and very importantly, the musical piece and skill to use those massive drums will make you pay attention even if you don't like classical music.

Then there's the most stereotypical music to which you could blow stuff up - Tchaikovsiy's 1812 Overture (or more specifically, the last 2 minutes of it). A good orchestra will make you be unable to turn away. And then I've had the opportunity to hear it being played in open air, with 105 mm cannons in place of the drums. I swear, half the audience shat their pants, it is THAT awesome.

(Something similar to this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...70xwGSk#t=579s

To make a point relevant to this thread, I think that should be the goal for the vanguard (being the granddad of the big guns). When I fire that main cannon, I want to be able to SMELL the cloakers that just shat their pants while laying mines around the tank.

Xyntech · 2012-01-07, 04:38 AM

I lot of games have flashbangs or other loud explosions mute the other sounds and cause a ringing. Hopefully forgelight is just as robust in the audio department as it is in the visuals, so maybe we can get ordinary sounds like footsteps coming through loud and clear, but make them be muffled and hard to hear when a noisy vehicle is driving by, and likewise make that noisy vehicle hard to hear when there are guns being fired, etc.

Make sound a bit more dynamic, like HDR does with lighting.

Shogun · 2012-01-07, 08:11 AM

i love the idea of having even different shield forms!

the idea to give nc the ps1max shield bubble, vs the slick shield-skin and terrans the blocky dune/borg shield is awesome!

please, devs, try to implement this! it would add soo much to the distinctiveness of the factions for infantry fights!

edit: i just realised that by faction theme the terrans would get the shieldbubble (round) and the nc would get the blocky chunky dune/borg shield. the vs get the newest technology that fits directly to the skin or armor. this way it would make even more sense.

EASyEightyEight · 2012-01-07, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Shogun

edit: i just realised that by faction theme the terrans would get the shieldbubble (round) and the nc would get the blocky chunky dune/borg shield. the vs get the newest technology that fits directly to the skin or armor. this way it would make even more sense.

I was going to say... It makes more sense following aesthetic style for the NC to go blocky/last-gen tech and the TR to be more up-to-date with spherical shields that would better deflect rounds.

VS skin hugging shield sounds pretty tight too. Like the nano-suit armor mode in Crysis 2.