Disappointed in what Planetside 2 has to offer - Page 4

WaryWizard · 2012-03-09, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

I have always wanted End Game. WWII Online did this well. It was persistent and the wars would last weeks or months, usually the latter. It was beautiful and felt very rewarding. Once the war was won, it would reset.

But resetting would make it have a lack of persistence. If it all gets wiped, and the battle starts anew a la chromehounds, then the persistence of that world would get destroyed.

megamold · 2012-03-09, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by EightEightEight

lol I wasn't talking about just a continent I was talking about the entire world. So if all the continents are your color (except the spawn points) then you get a big bonus and then they reset to neutral, meaning you won the entire world

oh thats a good idea then

it would be near impossible tough, i dont think it ever happened in ps1
it might also ruin the fun for the NC and VS players ( cause we all know who will own it all right?)

Chaff · 2012-03-09, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by SurgeonX

I think what you really want is to have a sense of owning a base.
And I think the way in which you do that has to be quite open and organic, so that it is possible to put a different stamp on each base, each time you own it.
Otherwise they would just feel too similar after a while.

So how about allowing Outfits to spend Outfit Points on an owned base by adding and annexing their own Outfit buidlings to it?
Buildings that could then be destroyed by the opposing Empires.
If there was a set area around or within the SOI that any Outfit could spend their points on, then you could build from a selection of specific buildings/modules, and put them wherever you want.

Outfits who work together could build some amazing setups.

So the bases would grow from their current footprints to being almost like a small town or city, with the base at the centre.

To me, that would take PS2 into a completely different dimension.
Both in terms of pushing gameplay to another level, but also in persistence.

I hear/see "tell me about your PlanetSide War Stories" quite often.
To me this adds an extra dimension to it.
Because then you'd have extra stories like, "remember when we held Baal for 10 days, and us, The Purple Ninja's and the Vanu Soldiers built that amazing setup. With that awesome turret layout."
"Yeah, and then the TR and NC banded together and dropped 50 Gal load's and destroyed the whole thing."

That.
Would be amazing.

^ THIS ! (plus all the other great ideas)

I too grew bored of the gameplay (took 2 years - but, then it was too damn repetitive and predictable).

Maybe the longer an Empire holds an area - be it a couple square km, or an entire continent.....the resources tied to that piece of the map slowly diminish. Conversly, the longer any piece of real estate goes unclaimed - the more the resources slowly grow - until players can no longer ignore it.

...this kind of decline & growth of resources will help deter too much repetitive gameplay.

On principal, I hate to agree with any NC - especially EVILPIG (since his minions killed me so often).....but the concept of something akin to an End Game is certainly worth considering.

I wish more people would try to think of ways to make the idea work instead of instantly attacking anything different. PS2 will definitely not be PS1.

I really like the idea of Outfits being able to upgrade and customize a base. It would have to require a good deal of time, persitence, high-certed players, and a fair amount of resources to make it worth the owning Empires time.....then if it pretty much required the other 2 Empires join to take it over...well, that sounds like one hell of a battle ...... and possibly major bragging rights....the longer the defenders hold out.

VanuMAXGuy · 2012-03-09, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by RadarX

What type of long term rewards would you be interested in? Do you feel an entire faction should receive rewards for the efforts of some? Ultimately what motivates your participation in a large scale conflict?

Continental locks. Entire map must be purple.

Gammit10 · 2012-03-09, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

I have always wanted End Game. WWII Online did this well. It was persistent and the wars would last weeks or months, usually the latter. It was beautiful and felt very rewarding. Once the war was won, it would reset.

Originally Posted by Valcron

Radar,

Trying to keep this as realistic as possible, if there is an empire that has held, or recaptured the same base(s) a number of specific times, I feel these bases should get stronger over time.

For instance, using old Cyssor as an example if the NC have captured and held that main base (Forget the name of it in the middle of the map) for a specific amount of time, there should be greater base rewards. For instance, it spawns new Turrets, it has stronger force fields, it heals players 1% faster within it's sphere of influence. As an example....

This will rewards players and the empire for actually holding bases. What I always envisioned and thought would be amazing is if 2 empires were trying to take down a base that the opposing empire had held for 2 weeks straight. That would be pretty amazing.

Ideas like this would help break up the monotony of just mowing over the same bases that give you the same benefits as they did last week when you captured it.

Awesome ideas. More persistence like this means I'm not just fighting on bigger maps, but an actual world.

Valcron · 2012-03-09, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Chaff

^ THIS ! (plus all the other great ideas)

I too grew bored of the gameplay (took 2 years - but, then it was too damn repetitive and predictable).

Maybe the longer an Empire holds an area - be it a couple square km, or an entire continent.....the resources tied to that piece of the map slowly diminish. Conversly, the longer any piece of real estate goes unclaimed - the more the resources slowly grow - until players can no longer ignore it.

...this kind of decline & growth of resources will help deter too much repetitive gameplay.

On principal, I hate to agree with any NC - especially EVILPIG (since his minions killed me so often).....but the concept of something akin to an End Game is certainly worth considering.

I wish more people would try to think of ways to make the idea work instead of instantly attacking anything different. PS2 will definitely not be PS1.

I really like the idea of Outfits being able to upgrade and customize a base. It would have to require a good deal of time, persitence, high-certed players, and a fair amount of resources to make it worth the owning Empires time.....then if it pretty much required the other 2 Empires join to take it over...well, that sounds like one hell of a battle ...... and possibly major bragging rights....the longer the defenders hold out.

I fear that the devs won't take this into consideration. There should be some sort of overall scoring system for each empire, and if you meet these scores within a certain time frame (IE- Months) you win some sort of benefit.

Valcron · 2012-03-09, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

PS2 is persistent. If you capture bases they are yours until someone else steals it.

And you're once again doing the same thing over and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. It's persistent alright, it's a persistent circle...

BlazingSun · 2012-03-09, 02:03 PM

And how are round based FPS games any better? You're playing the same maps over and over again as well for no reward, other than a "your team has won the round" message.

What could have been done though is to have an attackable "Sanctuary" for each empire - an enormous base that could be attacked and taken over once your empire fought it's way to that base. Once taken, the defenders would get kicked back into an orbital station or mothership temporarily until the map resets. The victoriuos empire would recieve some rewards. That is ofcourse no groundbreaking idea and I have suggested it a year ago already. It would have been hard to reach a balance though between never beeing able to attack that base and attacking it every 2nd day.

**Malorn** · 2012-03-09, 02:06 PM

This is a great discussion about persistent world.

I care a lot about this part of the game. I have several threads in this forum about that.

The reason I want the uncaps to be randomized is so the game doesn't get too stale and we get to see the same terrain from new angles and get different fights against different opponents. It keeps the game fresh, even without adding new terrain.
http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=36782

With regards to persistence, I have two threads on this, one is making each continent meaningful in its own right. Why fight on one continent vs another? That's the question I address with this thread:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=36627

And within a continent we have different objectives and bases. For that I have a discussion about facility benefits:
http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=36780

The overall purpose of continent and facility benefits is to provide you tangible reasons to hold or go after specific territory. I thought this was an awesome part of PS1 as it developed and I am sad to see very little about it in PS2.

So I agree with the OP that the game needs to avoid being stale and give us reasons to fight over specific parts of the map - and reasons not only to capture them but to hold onto them. Those reasons could be benefits, tactical, or simply to deny them.

I encourage those who are interested in this subject to read my threads above. I put a lot of thought into them and believe them to be important for the metagame and depth of PS2.

MonsterBone · 2012-03-09, 02:14 PM

We need to keep it simple but bottom line we should be able to add things to the world. Everything would have to be destructible and would be removed when the squad that created them left (went more then 1000 feet away).

So a squad could add:
1. Blocks (think minecraft!)
2. Squad spawn station
3. Equipment terminal

Dont worry about anything else. We can take it from here. ie We will build our own towers, ect...

Magpie · 2012-03-09, 02:18 PM

Your all gonna play planetside 2 no matter what >< I'm sure ps2 will be great it's gonna be more random and fun then battlefield 3, yea it was great the first 10
Times but it wears off. Planetside 1 still gives me giggles today 5 years on thats something special. And I'm sure planetside 2 will do the same even tho air looks overpower but thats what beta is all about. Relax and wait for beta we will soon find out.

Valrin · 2012-03-09, 02:19 PM

I think this could be solved with a system where if you hold onto a hex for X amount of time you get Y% boost to the resources that hex gives you. Additionally, and to promote continental dominance, you could increase the resource output from all adjacent hexes.

You would not just have people randomly zerging from place to place but instead promote defending territory. I think this would give people incentive to hold onto bases and "own" continents for longer periods of time. It would also give the opposing faction a reason to hit territories that have been held for longer in order to cripple the opposing faction's resources. This would promote epic battles, IMO.

Thoughts?

Dir · 2012-03-09, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Valcron

I know this post might rattle the fan boy's here, but I have to admit that I'm overall disappointed in the persistent elements in the game.

My argument is this- the game is hardly persistent at all. It's one giant battle over the same bases over and over again. One's argument might be "You gain resources when you take bases and outposts". That's great, but as soon as your empire leaves that continent for a different map/area of the game, someone is going to sweep it away from you.

There needs to be some long term benefits battling over the same bases over and over again. For instance, I have taken over the main base on Cyssor in Planetside 1 100's of different times, but there was never a feel of persistence to it. This has always been my biggest issue with Planetside, there are no long term MMOG's goals to the game, it's the same thing *Over* and *Over* and *Over* again.

I want the long term battles to mean something, if I take over a base for the 10th time this week, I want there to be some sort of empire wide rewards for this.

Planetside 2 looks very good, I just don't want to run into the monotony that Planetside 1 had over the course of the game.

Maybe new content will help with this? I really want the developers to be self-aware that this could be a problem.

Endgame for me, was clearly visible on any BF or PS1 map, back your opponent into a corner. For BF it's a No Cap, Dome of Death, your kicked if you pass this line until tickets run out. For PS that used to be the Sanctuary and the endgame could go on for several hours but only for one empire...the losing empire...but it was only ever temporary and it could turn around completely within an hour. In reality there never was an endgame and about the only persistent parts of the game were locked territories that gave your empire temporary benefits but the war was never over and never favoured a victorious empire with unreasonable benefits. The more territory you controlled the thinner your lines became and you needed those bennies just to hold on to the vast territories you had. It was really a perfect mix of dynamic variables but the formula stopped being developed so people left and quite honestly I think that's what the company wanted.

Now the Sanctuary has been removed and that makes me sad. To this day I'd say over half of the screen shots on this same website come from the sanctuary and there's nothing more persistent than a sanctuary. It's 3 unchanging variables in a long equation. They will try to re-create them through game mechanics but I honestly never saw the harm in a place where you could be safe from prying eyes to organize ops especially if you're that losing empire...not that there weren't any number of spies that could have been sitting in seat next to you...but that's war.

So the sanctuary is gone, free form inventories are gone, ams is gone, ant is gone, vehicles have disappeared and you want to remove one of the last final ingredients that made Planetside great? A carefully crafted and tested formula that kept me playing for 3 hours last night and 5 hours the night before last? PS1 game mechanics and lattice work meant you could login from any part of the world at any time, you weren't arriving early, you weren't arriving late, you were simply arriving either with benefits or without. PS1 had it right and it could have been developed further but wasn't...I hope PS2 builds on this foundation rather than trying to build it up from scratch like they seem to be doing with just about every other feature that made PS1 unique or even worse borrowing ideas from other MMO games. My outfit had a total blast moving 5 or 6 modules from the caves to the bases on the surface the other night and it was only 6vs6 but we still had an effect on the whole continent. We created our own unique mission.

It had a good bennie system and lattice network that promoted thought before action and it should be developed. If the devs want some truly original ideas on how to do this there are two websites us vets came to know and love that have described in detail how it could be done in the spirit of the old game. I mean hexes? Seriously...it looks like and acts like the board game Risk...on Auraxis. Many of the original ideas I'm reading in this thread aren't even original and have already been documented on those sites for the devs. There are even flow charts and pics for the simple minded ones.

Please devs if you're going to copy ideas from other games copy them from ideas that spawned when your bosses stopped developing Planetside but have an origin in Planetside lore. There's any number of creative ways to throw dynamics into the game while still hanging on to it's roots but there's no need to re-invent the wheel...it's tiresome. How about a capital dome that slowly turns opaque when you've held on to it for a week? ...it's not a Sanctuary but it's a start...or have capital force domes been removed as well? Are you guys even reading the poles?

Dir

Graywolves · 2012-03-09, 02:33 PM

I don't think your problem is with the lack of persistant gameplay....

They are making gameplay more dynamic in PS2 and trying to make bases feel more unique as well as territory.

If you need a more tangible purpose than I suppose Empire's could accumulate overall points or a score for holding bases longer. A score would probably need to be reset occasionally though.

In PS1 you DO have a reason for taking bases for its benefits on that continent and for taking a continent for the server wide benefits.

Synapses · 2012-03-09, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

I have always wanted End Game. WWII Online did this well. It was persistent and the wars would last weeks or months, usually the latter. It was beautiful and felt very rewarding. Once the war was won, it would reset.

After playing almost 40 camps in WWII Online.... I have to call you out on this. You want some feeling of reward or accomplishment. Sure you get that feeling "Yeah we won the war" but... 3 days later it resets.

There is still no reward there.... at all.