A video that can help the PS2 developers on getting the feel of the guns right! - Page 4

SUBARU · 2012-03-15, 01:02 AM

THIS IS A VIDEO GAME ,not a war SIMULATOR.It takes place on Auraxis,not Earth.

Pozidriv · 2012-03-15, 04:00 AM

Originally Posted by SUBARU

THIS IS A VIDEO GAME ,not a war SIMULATOR.It takes place on Auraxis,not Earth.

BF3, Cs and BC aint war simulators, also i think the same newtonian physics apply in Auraxis like on Earth. Unless Auraxis resides in non euclidean space :P

Dreamcast · 2012-03-15, 05:09 AM

I liked the feel of the gun I saw.

Exactly like Killzone 2.

Vancha · 2012-03-15, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by bigcracker

Ya that is trying to post after a 24 Hour shift my bad lol(i went full retard),Yes the head is moving but the eyes remain on target,Most of the recoil is on the shoulder and doesn't or may sometimes ( Really depending on the caliber)move the head slightly,but again as I said the eyes remain still on target.Right now planetside 2 with just the rifle moving up and back is as realistic a game can get with recoil if your looking for anything for satisfying i would try something like this http://www.firebox.com/product/2075/3rd-Space-FPS-Vest

Sorry, did you just say that firing a gun in a game shouldn't be made as satisfying as possible because it isn't realistic?

Skitrel · 2012-03-15, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by bigcracker

Here is a rl ops guys shooting

Magpul Dynamics : Quick Reference Drills - YouTube

The only thing that is moving is the gun.Soldiers now how to stand and control the weapon they are using.So if you wanna make the game more satisfying leave it in the gun now a screen shake.

Watching a video of firing does NOT do any justice to the effects of kick on a shooter. Very small movements, absolutely tiny, are extremely large movements when viewed from the shooter's perspective. You see little movement here, true, from his perspective even firing just 50m he's going to be getting groupings that are easily 1-2feet wide firing at this speed and pace. That's an IMMENSE amount of recoil that you're completely not recognising is going on from his perspective, and would in fact be ludicrously too much for an arcade styled title like Planetside, agreeably. More effect however is not a bad thing.

Thankfully you're wrong and the devs are intelligent enough to know exactly what we're all discussing here though and aren't going to take diddly notice of you at all.

I find your comments on their aim not moving hilarious. You've never fired a gun.

And the following bad boy is on a tripod:

And the following, firmly planted on a table for extra control, note the movement is small, yet consider just how much those small tiny movements have an effect on the distance a reticle will travel from target at ever increasing ranges. At just 50m you're looking at a travel of 3-4m in reticle with realistic effects. Arma and Project Reality being the only games that really do this

And finally, some long range M4 firing practice, yet another firmly planted video.

Now let's get away from this silly belief that the military in real life is somehow more able to control such things. That's ludicrous, recoil in games is ridiculously dumbed down for arcade gameplay purposes.

Actually, and finally, Arma 2's recoil, a game that actually tries to be a military sim as opposed to an arcade shooter:

EDIT: Knew I'd guess the embed code wrong for this. Someone want to enlighten me so I can edit them?

EDIT2: Fixed

Hamma · 2012-03-15, 10:22 AM

Cool videos

Kipper · 2012-03-18, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Cosmical

Best example is Jackie Chan. You get a hollywood director who thinks that every frame of film needs to be fraught with perill, so they over edit it, add camera shake and give it the works, and your lucky if you come out the otherside knowing who landed a punch. In japanese cinema, they lock off the camera, and film it in one shot, and you see everything in its full glory.

It's hard to compare different styles of movie-making. If you take an obviously OTT action movie then it's great because it has super set pieces and everything is shiny and you go "wow, that looks amazing!" but you're still a spectator with the best seat in the house.

Compare that with something like Saving Private Ryan or more lately, Safehouse - and while you don't get to see every little bit of shiny detail, you're assaulted with in-your-face action and sounds and camera work and you don't feel like you're just watching it - you feel like you're part of it.

Both are valid approaches - but personally I am going to be part of the action in a game, so I want to feel like it as much as possible.

EVILoHOMER · 2012-03-18, 10:55 AM

Again this isn't about copying other games exactly, it's about knowing what makes the guns feel powerful and satisfying and what makes them feel weak. Also in real life you feel the kick back and the weight of the gun, it's also a lot harder to aim and move with a weapon than with a keyboard and mouse and a floating camera. You have to exaggerate the power of the guns in games because there is no force feedback like what you get in real life. Also in real life it's hard to keep your aim and move, where this isn't fun in non sim games, so you need to make the screen shake a bit to reflect this in the game.

Lokster · 2012-03-18, 03:18 PM

Did that guy compare his "professional gaming" with NFL players and professional sports?

Seriously, he needs a reality check. So hilarious.

"I'm awesome and can be the best at a game that was made 13 years ago that nobody plays anymore" .. Good for you buddy. lol.

Anywho, back to the topic at hand. As others have stated, the sounds guns make are as (if not more) important than the feedback received visually.

ArmedZealot · 2012-03-18, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Lokster

Did that guy compare his "professional gaming" with NFL players and professional sports?

Seriously, he needs a reality check. So hilarious.

"I'm awesome and can be the best at a game that was made 13 years ago that nobody plays anymore" .. Good for you buddy. lol.

Anywho, back to the topic at hand. As others have stated, the sounds guns make are as (if not more) important than the feedback received visually.

Professional gaming is getting pretty successful. Maybe not comparable to the NFL, but it is still pretty big.

Kipper · 2012-03-18, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by EVILoHOMER

...because there is no force feedback like what you get in real life..

Hmm, why hasn't anyone made a force feedback mouse

And if they have why haven't I heard of it....

Alright, most people would probably throw it in the bin after 5 minutes - especially since it would be a massive disadvantage in an FPS, but hey-ho

Lokster · 2012-03-18, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Professional gaming is getting pretty successful. Maybe not comparable to the NFL, but it is still pretty big.

Yup, professional gaming is. This guy is so important he has less than 5000 views on his bitch fest video about games nobody cares about. I have more views on unlisted videos never meant to be watched by anyone.

Eyeklops · 2012-03-18, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Kipper

Hmm, why hasn't anyone made a force feedback mouse

(Logitech made one)
And if they have why haven't I heard of it.... (Google "Force feedback mouse")

Alright, most people would probably throw it in the bin after 5 minutes (Most people didn't even buy one) - especially since it would be a massive disadvantage in an FPS, but hey-ho

(It increases immersion in single player, but only proves to be a disadvantage in multiplayer)

It was a horrible failure.

Forsaken One · 2012-03-18, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Lokster

Did that guy compare his "professional gaming" with NFL players and professional sports?

Seriously, he needs a reality check. So hilarious.

"I'm awesome and can be the best at a game that was made 13 years ago that nobody plays anymore" .. Good for you buddy. lol.

Anywho, back to the topic at hand. As others have stated, the sounds guns make are as (if not more) important than the feedback received visually.

This, every single part of it.

First the main topic part. sound= YES. when I play a FPS game, in fact any game with a projectile, I want to hear it.

within the first hour of the game I should, just by sound know every single projectile fired around me.

I should know that the guy to my right has a jackhammer, if its moded and how it is modded if it is. I should know what GRADE that jackhammer is (light, heavy, Max, carbine, etc.) All this, just from the sound of it being fired.

The non topic part. It honestly couldn't be said any better. I was pretty much born with a atari/nes in my hand and seriously this crap about muscle reflex, twitch, and hand eye being everything about being pro at a game needs to stop. yes, you were pro at old school games limited and handcapped by the time they were invented. But when you play something like a BF game or CoD game and have to complain about noobtubing or cheap tactics you just prove how much you suck at what is evolving as gaming.

Someday games will be played via VR tech with no controllers at all, no mice and KB, no need for anything other then you thinking. Where are all those reflex noobs going to be then? Yup, gone.

E-sports has to start embracing true skill if it ever hopes to be a real sport or anything anyone would really want to watch as a whole. What is true skill? Its all Skills. Take Dota. look at a char called the Goblin Techies. Its an example of true skill. yes there are a lot of "skillshot" champs but this char proves that you can have something that takes no reflex skill and little input, yet can be competitive in his own right via its own "playstyle" where planing and cunning > reflex or input. THIS is what we need more of. in fact we need even more fields to be allowed to be competitive. twitch is not the core of gaming anymore, its evolved into simply a playstyle, as such it should be treated like so.

Once we have games that supports ALL playstyles. The twitchfull, the twitchless, the smart, the thinkers, the trapers, the builders, etc, etc. with each one having the same overall level of power THEN we have a sport, till then its nothing but a bunch of twitchers throwing around their E-pens thinking they are something but they are really nothing but noobs that hide behind their term of "twitch is pro" purely because they LACK the skill to Vs these other playstyles in a balanced playing field and so try to force devs to patch, mod, nerf, or otherwise just not have these playstyles supported.

Lokster · 2012-03-18, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Forsaken One

within the first hour of the game I should, just by sound know every single projectile fired around me.

I should know that the guy to my right has a jackhammer, if its moded and how it is modded if it is. I should know what GRADE that jackhammer is (light, heavy, Max, carbine, etc.) All this, just from the sound of it being fired.

Indeed. I also want to point out the number of games I have played and subsequently stopped playing a few hours later due to unimpressive sounds. A good example is Saints Row 3. Which is a fun game indeed, but I was appalled by the horrible weapon sounds -- which made the game far less enjoyable for me.