Simultaneous duel boot?!

Ait'al · 2012-03-26, 04:21 PM

Is there any easy way to simultaneously use duel boot. AKA if I had linux running for a server/media thing on one comp and windows for gaming could it be done?

by this I mean without VMs(Or the ones I've tried.). Could they both share the system resources entirely. I would think there could be software solution to this.. Something that can actively load windows and linux and let me distribute live the resources like ram etc while they are running and open and close them/load them at will. Virtual machine doesn't allow full use of the system. Something more low level would be cool. Is there anything floating out there that does this?

It would by hyptothetically cool to run split screen and or multi screen. AKA go between mulitiple monitors, split screen, PIP at will. 8p Basically and OS for OSes!

actively partition the ram like an HDD or whatever is useful and run them in an environment of their own. Dedicate a port here and a port there for video or other resources etc etc. 8) It would seem to me a logical conclusion at this point. And infact well late in potential. Especially for smaller older OSes. Could have been done long ago on single cpus if the software was small enough.

Edit: I would think this could be done hypothetically. Just have it be the main OS and load up with the basic ability to call OSes like the start up process can. Hell simulate it. At that point you have a much more powerful version for options. Just need security I would guess. Sticking with a linux model would work I would think. A layering for your layering. 8)

Ailos · 2012-03-26, 04:49 PM

I think there is a hardware architecture issue there - you might have several cores and parallel RAM, but each bridge and things like PCI and SATA buses will typically only have one controller, so you'll find it difficult to partition out the resources because you can't partition the controller - without your suggested low-level virtualization OS. I have a feeling something like that may exist in the Linux side of the world.

Without virtualization, the only way I could see this possible is with a server setup - with a motherboard that has several CPU sockets, several memory controllers, bridge pairs, interface buses and SATA controllers - and that's something I would expect to only find on server motherboards. But then, that's pretty much the same as just having two normal motherboards (that would normally be interlinked to make up the server cloud).

Ait'al · 2012-03-26, 05:15 PM

What about something like rotating access back and forth rapidly between Oses to all resources? I would think there would be potentially abundant work arounds. Even if it leaves it only good for a small number of oses.

Not sure how it would practically work.. But if that splits it in half you could change the ratio to 2/3 or so on of ticks to get the same affect. If the idea is even applicable that is.

noxious · 2012-03-26, 05:24 PM

Without virtualization, it is not possible.

Ailos · 2012-03-26, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ait'al

What about something like rotating access back and forth rapidly between Oses to all resources? I would think there would be potentially abundant work arounds. Even if it leaves it only good for a small number of oses.

Not sure how it would practically work.. But if that splits it in half you could change the ratio to 2/3 or so on of ticks to get the same affect. If the idea is even applicable that is.

The issue ultimately comes down to the fact that both OSes would be using the same device IDs, memory addresses and IRQs - and that's a recipe for disaster, even if you are switching them back and forth really fast. Also, your effective bus speeds would be much slower than what it may seem - if you have a 1200 MHz bus, simply giving 600 MHz to each OS wouldn't work. You need to give time for the controllers to completely clear the data from the bus and any processor cashes before you send any fresh data for the other OS - and that could take hundreds of milliseconds, bringing your operating speed down to the 100 Hz range - and that's pretty unusable. Also, the data from those bus lines and cashes would need to be constantly written down elsewhere - without a special controller and RAM, that would be a hard drive, and that's a lot of read-write operations, even for an SSD.

Ait'al · 2012-03-26, 05:53 PM

OH well. Maybe, eventually, someone will make mobos with the potential with increase of home use for servers etc..

Hmmm. I know I'm stabing in the dark here but... what if you virtualize the things you need and not the others. Or give port asking privaledges as needed. There must be a way.(could you just virtualize at a base level as the base OS with lots of features for sharing.) 8p Yea, I need to go back to studying my electrical engineering... but couldn't you just clump one os to run the others. It would/could be virtualization but the base OS would be a virtual layer to control the others things but could give full privileges with or to drivers etc. Maybe I"m off by saying it's not virtualization. Maybe not... I see what you mean...

Is there one that would Virtualize at the base level as a base OS layer and run the others like a virtual environment with good efficency for gaming?

Ailos · 2012-03-26, 06:20 PM

What you're describing IS indeed virtualization - maybe to lighten the load, the base OS wouldn't have a GUI (e.g. Ubuntu server), but the others would. And yeah, when you're virtualizing hardware, you can (and should) only virtualize the hardware that's necessary to get things done.

Fenrys · 2012-03-26, 06:36 PM

It sounds like you are looking for a hypervisor.

Ait'al · 2012-03-26, 07:04 PM

Ok, I think I know what I'm asking then. Are there any Oses that can be installed that are nothing but virtulization environments? ONes that could even virtualize existing partitioned Oses. 8p

It sounds like you are looking for a hypervisor.

Oh, cool! That looks like it might be it. Still reading. 8) Yep. I think I'm looking for a type one Hypervisor! 8p

http://blog.codemonkey.ws/2007/10/my...pervisors.html
http://www.webster-consulting.eu/vir...ervisors-rock/

So what is best? Anyones good. I've seen KVM and xen(which I tried to install inside ubuntu but ended up grabbing the other more friendly VM) I'm looking for, I'm assuming, bare metal control. Someone mentioned bios level being a true type 1. Any opinions on what would be good?

I plan to use one for windows(gaming) and the other for Ubuntu/linux or a media server that can also be used potentially for gaming(wine) or word documents. Big thing is a need one server and both to plug into a Monitor in front of me(it has PIP that lets me see both if I want to.). Plus process out movies on the server to other TVs if I want. Also want to stream cable from a box with a way to remotely turn the channel on the cable box in the other room(1box 2rooms cable setup) but that can wait. 8p

I can't set this up now but I was hoping to gather any data that was useful if anyone knows any offhand. Plus I can explore options and find software for now. 8) I'm going to look into KVM and xen again and see what they can do but any opinions would help. I'm not missing anything big am I?

Edit: side note: The buttons! They changed on us!! 8)