Dear SOE, please don't rush PlanetSide 2

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by cellinaire

I'm curious about what's in the 5-years plan. =)

I mean, PS2 in it's current state seem to lack some innovation. Of course, I want them to reintroduce the things like 'corpse cam', exit/enter animation, or such things that got mentioned a LOT here first, but any shiny new ideas which is relevant and consistent with PS2 is also welcome.

Everything people want as innovations seems to get shot down with BFR comparisons, or as inconsistent with PS2 ( as if there is some divine rule about what PS2 must be). That doesn't leave much, so what could they possibly innovate that doesn't get shot down by the standard objections?

[Kriegson]

Originally Posted by TheDrone

Is there pressure, both financially and from the community and from the fact that it might be that they started their media offensive too soon, to release the beta? Yes, there is.

Guild wars 2 has been pressured and giving out media tiddbits for years now. Pressure? Sure. Pressure that would actually have any effect on their development cycle? Unlikely.

[DarkSkyes]

Originally Posted by Shogun

dust is going to be a free game?
don´t think so.
but you are right, ps2 will be the first high quality free to play game.
and especially with free to play games, patching something in later is no problem.

i am seriously pissed, when i pay 60 bucks for a retail game and it doesn´t work before the first 3-5 patches, but i will get ps2 for free, so if something is wrong, i will happily wait until it´s fixed.

I dont think you will get the game for "free", you will of course need to buy the actual game but play for free as opposed to a monthly subscriber. I doubt SOE will give free copies of its games out.

[cellinaire]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Everything people want as innovations seems to get shot down with BFR comparisons, or as inconsistent with PS2 ( as if there is some divine rule about what PS2 must be). That doesn't leave much, so what could they possibly innovate that doesn't get shot down by the standard objections?

You know, it doesn't have to be large and broad. And not everyone will agree that PS2 should be the carbon-copy version of PS1 with some more enhancements and just new graphics engine attached to it.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by cellinaire

You know, it doesn't have to be large and broad. And not everyone will agree that PS2 should be the carbon-copy version of PS1 with some more enhancements and just new graphics engine attached to it.

Well, you have to admit, large innovations will be, well, unique, by definition most haven't been done before. Who is to say things couldn't have been different for PS1 if tech had been more advanced?

But with that said, what could be innovated on a smaller scale, for infantry,and standard type ground and air vehicles? There isn't that much that hasn't been done, individually, somewhere out there in the gaming world. Most of the opportunity for innovation therefore comes in making the right choices for a fun game that's not casualized, but not too difficult to play either, and packaging them all together.

But I'll tell you one innovation I would love to see. And I say this NOT because I am trying to seek realism, but because realism in this case would simply be damn cool. Realistic laser guidance for heavy weaponry! No multiplayer game that I have ever played has ever done it realistically,which doesn't mean NO multiplayer game has ever done it.

By this I mean, you point your laser designator at a target, and your teammates fire either missiles or bombs etc that will follow it to where you have it pointed. If you move the laser after the missile has been fired, but before it hits, it will try to move to where you're pointing. This would be fun AND sandbox, because you could use this to fire at infantry that are holed up in cover, or who knows what that needs to be taken out.

Battlefield 3 has laser designation but it is a fail system that uses automatic no skill locking and, as you might have guessed, you can only lock vehicles, you cannot use sandbox tactics to guide the missile to a sniper nest.

For an example of how this would work, you can look at BF Bad Company 2's UAV missile. It works exactly like I said, except it too is a fail because the missiles are unlimited and are NOT fired by other players, they come from off-screen. But the way the laser works is exactly as I have said, except I would want this to be a handheld device for infantry.

Having realistic guidance like this would make bomber/strike aircraft squads working with infantry on the ground with laser painters a very viable tool.

[Mr DeCastellac]

Except for the first paragraph:

Originally Posted by TheDrone

As of late I’ve noticed myself and some other people are becoming a little worried. Worried that SOE are wanting to go too fast. That the game might be rushed into beta, even tho it won’t be ready.

This is, in my opinion, the problem with the game development area right now.
A game doesn't need to be "ready" for beta.
Alpha is to test an extremely rough version, Beta is to test a somewhat smoothed over version. It doesn't have to be "ready".

The whole thing about betas is that if someone finds something that's wrong with it, they tell someone so it gets fixed. That's what a beta is! I heard this in a 'Tribes: Ascend' video and it clicked for me:
Too many game developers use the beta phase as some sort of promotional demo, and far too few of them use it for actual testing and improvement.
(In the video, they were referring to how HiRez Studios was listening to feedback and making major changes to the game.)
^And I hope that SOE does this with PS2.^


But don't get me wrong. I love the idea of slowing their pace in regards to a release date, I just don't think they should wait a long time before putting it into beta. I definitely don't want SOE to rush in the development of the sequel to the best game ever created.

[Alexious]

Originally Posted by Shogun

dust is going to be a free game?
don´t think so.
but you are right, ps2 will be the first high quality free to play game.
and especially with free to play games, patching something in later is no problem.

i am seriously pissed, when i pay 60 bucks for a retail game and it doesn´t work before the first 3-5 patches, but i will get ps2 for free, so if something is wrong, i will happily wait until it´s fixed.

Dust is free, just like PS2 and Firefall. They are on even field on that.

[TheDrone]

Originally Posted by Mr DeCastellac

Except for the first paragraph:


This is, in my opinion, the problem with the game development area right now.
A game doesn't need to be "ready" for beta.
Alpha is to test an extremely rough version, Beta is to test a somewhat smoothed over version. It doesn't have to be "ready".

The whole thing about betas is that if someone finds something that's wrong with it, they tell someone so it gets fixed. That's what a beta is! I heard this in a 'Tribes: Ascend' video and it clicked for me:
Too many game developers use the beta phase as some sort of promotional demo, and far too few of them use it for actual testing and improvement.
(In the video, they were referring to how HiRez Studios was listening to feedback and making major changes to the game.)
^And I hope that SOE does this with PS2.^


But don't get me wrong. I love the idea of slowing their pace in regards to a release date, I just don't think they should wait a long time before putting it into beta. I definitely don't want SOE to rush in the development of the sequel to the best game ever created.

Beta’s are supposed to be feature-complete IIRC. I’m not sure PS2 is close to that. It’s most certainly not asset-complete if you see what’s yet to be added in terms of physics, models, textures and particle effects.

I was in the Tribes:Ascend beta on day two. If we compare how finished that version was with how finished PS2 seems now then it’s clear PS2 has a long way to go still. Hi-Rez made major changes to T:A but if I recall correctly all features and assets were mostly there, save for a few exceptions. They mostly fixed game modes and balance, it seemed.

You’re correct that betas are part of the marketing effort these days. That’s not how it should be, but how it is. People have certain expectations as to how finished a beta should be.

I was in the Earthrise beta and it was a massacre. Sure, there were plenty of unforgivable flaws, but a whole lot of issues were what you could expect in betas (too few/many mobs, weapon balance, minor gui bugs). Yet the devs were crucified because of these by a lot of beta “testers”.

In a game like T:A it’s possible to be somewhat selective as to who you allow to test as you don’t need all that many people.
Not so in PS2. SOE’s going to need thousands, of whom the vast majority are going to have unrealistic expectations.

That’s why rushing PS2 is a very, very bad idea.

[bullet]

+1 to this thread

I want a good, full game at release, not a beta 1.5. It seems like a lot of people see beta as an early access pass to play the game anymore and just want it way too soon.

[Bonius]

Originally Posted by bullet

+1 to this thread

I want a good, full game at release, not a beta 1.5. It seems like a lot of people see beta as an early access pass to play the game anymore and just want it way too soon.

En masse beta is pretty much the same thing as a demo, with the only difference being that the developers can say "It's a beta, things are supposed to be buggy".

[Mr DeCastellac]

Originally Posted by TheDrone

Beta’s are supposed to be feature-complete IIRC. I’m not sure PS2 is close to that. It’s most certainly not asset-complete if you see what’s yet to be added in terms of physics, models, textures and particle effects.

I was in the Tribes:Ascend beta on day two. If we compare how finished that version was with how finished PS2 seems now then it’s clear PS2 has a long way to go still. Hi-Rez made major changes to T:A but if I recall correctly all features and assets were mostly there, save for a few exceptions. They mostly fixed game modes and balance, it seemed.

You’re correct that betas are part of the marketing effort these days. That’s not how it should be, but how it is. People have certain expectations as to how finished a beta should be.

I was in the Earthrise beta and it was a massacre. Sure, there were plenty of unforgivable flaws, but a whole lot of issues were what you could expect in betas (too few/many mobs, weapon balance, minor gui bugs). Yet the devs were crucified because of these by a lot of beta “testers”.

In a game like T:A it’s possible to be somewhat selective as to who you allow to test as you don’t need all that many people.
Not so in PS2. SOE’s going to need thousands, of whom the vast majority are going to have unrealistic expectations.

That’s why rushing PS2 is a very, very bad idea.

You make some good points, but I wasn't saying they should put PS2 into a beta now. Rather, that the game doesn't have to be perfect to put it into beta. My reason is one you agreed with, a beta isn't for marketing, it's for testing.

I also wouldn't say T:A is being selective of the players let in, as they originally gave 3 extra keys to each person, and have been emailing new keys out regularly, as well as giving keys to anyone who likes their facebook page.

But I do get your point that it's sort of a 'common misconception' thing, and though people's views on the beta are mostly wrong, it's common so there's no fixing it :P
And you're right how "SOE’s going to need thousands, of whom the vast majority are going to have unrealistic expectations."

I never disagreed that SOE should take their time with PS2, it just doesn't have to be perfect for beta. Besides, the people who played the first game are being let in to the beta first (as well as magazine buyers, who probably played the first one anyhow), so I'm fairly certain they'll understand and won't just abandon it if it has some issues similar to Earthrise.
People who haven't played PS1 however, might. That's why there's a closed beta and an open beta (something we seem to be forgetting here). Closed beta is for people who understand the game is in an early phase and can forgive moderate glitches. Open beta is for once all the wrinkles are smoothed out. That seems to be the "marketing phase" amongst game development, when anyone can (and most will) try it, just to play it, not test it.