A minutes silence for everyone - Page 2

Unregistered · 2003-03-07, 03:13 PM

Germany also requires everyone to server in either the Military or a civil service corps type thing (I can't remember what it's called). For them it's just like another year of school after the finish High School.

Confectrix · 2003-03-07, 05:16 PM

It is so sad a day when the very soldiers who have taken an oath for the protection of their homeland are ripped apart because they were following orders. Orders which had a purpose; orders which did not intend civilian causalties but nevertheless incured them. War's goal is not the murdering of civilians; that is terrorism's goal.

American troops are never, and never have been at the level of terrorists.

I spit in the face of thee whom says it so.

Airlift · 2003-03-07, 06:55 PM

Can we get some silence for all the people killed by the Tartars in the 1300s when Timur teh Lame conquered Asia? Or the people killed by Kublai Khan in the 1200s or the people killed by Genghis Khan in the 1100s. Lest we forget the poor cavemen who were overcome and killed by their neighboring tribe before we had all that history to throw at each other.

Say what you will, but at least thos fokkers were killing each other with sticks, rocks, and sharp knives.

NARF · 2003-03-07, 08:27 PM

What about the 250,000,000 people in America who have been saved MANY times from nuclear and biological attack, THIS WEEK ALONE, because 100 or 200 people were in the way. What about the 300,000 people in Russia that US Special Forces saved, in secret (these are the guys that don't exist) from a tactical nuke, by killing 50 innocent people because there was nothing tey could do to warn them, but not killing them would have led to more deaths. What about YOU who has been saved by United States Armed Forces more times than you can imagine, but a person or two has had thier house burnt.

YOU would have a bullet through your head and you testicles cut off if it wasn't for those people dying, it's not like nothing came of thier deaths, and it wasn't as if we WANTED to kill them.

What about the ENTIRE F****** POPULATION OF CHINA? WHO HAS BEEN SAVED FROM CHINESE RADICALS WHO WANT THE MILITARY POWER? WHAT? INNOCENTS GOT KILLED? OH WE CAN'T H"AVE THAT, WE'D RATHER LET HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIE IN A WORLD WAR OVER THE SOVEIRGTY OF CHINA, WHAT? MORE PEOPLE WOULD DIE IF THOSE PEOPLE DIDn"T DIE? NO DIDn't THINK OF ANY OF THAT DID YOU>

PISS OFF, YOu disgust me, my life dream is to GIVE MY LIFE FOR YOU, and you call me a terrorist? YOU MAKE ME F****** SICK YOU UNGRATEFUL LITTLE B******!

NARF · 2003-03-07, 08:28 PM

bah, thought there was a filter on this board, can a mod edit those words out, don't want to offend anyone do we...

perhaps you should delete this insteads.

Headrattle · 2003-03-07, 09:14 PM

Every known civilization has killed innocents. America is by no means innocent.
We have driven the Native Americans from their land, resettled them, then took their land again. We have massacred Vietnamese villagers. We have conducted strange studies on our own people (Tuskegee.) We have oppressed innocent Japanese civilians during WW2. We have imprisoned and black listed people for going to a communist assembly. We have toppled democratically elected governments in fear that they would increase the cost of Bananas. We have backed tyrants murderers and drug dealers while they oppress their own people.

But is it America's fault? Not really. These are the actions of few. These are actions that were taken without the approval or knowledge of the people. The people that did these things should be held accountable and many times were if not immediately then by history.

Every country does bad things. Britain massacred peaceful Indian demonstrators. France killed a crap load of Protestants in the Napoleonic wars. Germany� well we all know about that.
Canada might be the exception but that is because everyone up there is too damn cold to take advantage of others.

Most other governments would erase such mistakes. They wouldn�t let the people learn about them. We do. It might take a few years but we do, many times right after the fact. And, for the most part, people are angry and outraged when it happens. This is an important distinction.

My point is this. We, as people, are no stronger, better, or more moral then any other nation. But our government was structured in a way that would try to make sure these things wouldn�t happen. They still will. But when they do, our constitution tries to make sure the people know about it. It tries to make sure that people aren�t oppressed.

That is why I love my country. That is why I get ticked off whenever Ashcroft takes American citizens, labels them enemy combatants and holds them without access to a Lawyer. AFTER they promised that they would only do this to non-Americans. That is why I sometimes think that we are forgetting what being an American is all about. Wrapping ourselves in the flag forgetting what that flag stands for.
But I digress.

The fact that, we have done bad things in our past is a bad thing.
But the fact that we know of these bad things in our past, and can learn from them is a VERY good thing.
This is a freedom that not everyone has.

Of course you can yell about certain things that are the exception. Certain things that the government is still covering up. But these are few and far between.
And many times border the line of conspiracy.
But again, these things are done by individuals that were given too much power without being accountable for their actions.
But that is my opinion.

Sorry for being so long

Arshune · 2003-03-07, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Headrattle
We have toppled democratically elected governments in fear that they would increase the cost of Bananas.

I know that really happened and it's horrible and all, but I just can't help but snicker at the ridiculousness of that...

Headrattle · 2003-03-07, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by Arshune
I know that really happened and it's horrible and all, but I just can't help but snicker at the ridiculousness of that...

Oh I agree. I laughed out loud when I heard about this.
But you have to remember that was when the CIA was called the "brotherhood." They thought at the time that they could get away with anything that they wanted to. A friend of one of the higher ups worked in the fruit industry, and decided that it was in America's interest.

In the 70's much of this changed when the senate decided to look into what they were doing.
That changed much of how the CIA worked. They decided to be a little more accountable after that.