Any plans on making base capture have more options?

MrBloodworth · 2012-06-08, 12:57 PM

As it stands, there is only one tactic to control a base that I can tell. Capture points. PS1 offered many more avenues and base systems to disrupt, or shift how the base was being captured or defended. Right now, while there are more capture points to capturing a single base, instead of just the command center. The elements that could add deus ex machina moments seem to be gone.

NTU/Ant/Drains, Generator, spawn point removal ( Through destruction or Gen dropping/Hacking ), Hacking disruptions, Equipment denial... Nonexistent in PS2 as far as I know.

I believe my point is that its about the options to approach a situation, and form a plan accordingly, at a squad or empire level. Things like having one squad drop a gen, or defend it/Repair it ETC... Many of those moments, and the possible comebacks or counters are missing.

Those elements of base capture created some really exciting moments that many remember to this day.

PS: Also, where are the doors?

captainkapautz · 2012-06-08, 01:01 PM

Yes, has been mentioned in multiple videos.

MrBloodworth · 2012-06-08, 01:06 PM

Insightful post, thanks!

Spoof · 2012-06-08, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

PS: Also, where are the doors?

Gone, thank God.

PS1's doors were like a fourth empire, that backdoor especially. It was always mysteriously closed when I was shot from the other side.

captainkapautz · 2012-06-08, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Insightful post, thanks!

No problem.

Duddy · 2012-06-08, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Those elements of base capture created some really exciting moments that many remember to this day.

PS: Also, where are the doors?

Doors: It seems there aren't (m)any save for the forcefields on spawn rooms that prevent entry.

As for your other points, as I discussed in that other thread, whilst they created some great moments they equally created just as many bad ones.

Generators, I feel, were ultimately more detrimental to the game than beneficial. Whilst the option was certainly effective, it was too effective far too often. More importantly it was the fact that it often detracted from active gameplay that.

Whilst I am disappointed to see the NTU system not make a return I can understand why. Most players saw it as more of a hassle, again something that took them out of core gameplay, rather than something fun. Not to say that it didn't have its moments.

I could go on, but my message is that I think that the removal of some of these features focuses people back on the core aspect of the game.

With that out of the way, I am concerned that we have only seen the capture system presented to us at Zhuravan(?) AMP station. They seem to have implied that there are more and differentiated systems but we have yet to see that.

I certainly hope that hacking/disruption is actually included and has substantial features to it. Again concerned we haven't seen much of it yet.

TL;DR

Most things that are gone seem to be for good reason, we haven't been shown enough diversity so far however.

Xyntech · 2012-06-08, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Insightful post, thanks!

We haven't heard much word on the other capture types, but they did state frequently during the E3 streams that there would be more ways to capture.

They may still be deciding which ones they want to use. There may even be some added during beta, or even post launch. Remember that LLU's were added after the first Planetside had already launched.

I wouldn't mind seeing a base or two having the timer hack like the first game. Maybe not 15 minutes, but that would be for playtesting to decide. An LLU style flag system would be fun as well.

I hope we see a lot of variety.

Madcut · 2012-06-08, 01:25 PM

As far as I can tell, and someone with more knowledge can correct me, they have "loose" plans to implement content just as generator rooms or other tactical objectives. In some videos Higby talks about being interested in adding such content in the future.

I think it's pretty unlikely that the developers will leave PS2 the way it stands now with virtually no objectives other than taking control points in a base. IMO, SOE is good about consistently adding new content to their games, and I doubt that content will solely be in the form of player customizations over skins and weapons.

PS2 has the potential to be a great competitive FPS game ala SC2 style with just as devoted players. It would be silly for them to screw this potential up by just focusing on implementing BF/COD elements to a stripped down PS game.

I think we'll have to wait till beta to see.

MrBloodworth · 2012-06-08, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Duddy

Whilst I am disappointed to see the NTU system not make a return I can understand why. Most players saw it as more of a hassle, again something that took them out of core gameplay, rather than something fun. Not to say that it didn't have its moments.

Stuff like this was part of core game play. Its part of what separated PS from other titles. Shear size was not the only thing PS had, and they already have this covered.

I respectfully disagree that the elements created bad game play, but I also do not subscribe to the notion I must be shooting at something every second of the game. Part of the draw I feel of PS was the tools given by the game design to approach things differently than just capturing a Command center. Removal of those options does not make it a better game, there needs to be elements for all users, not just FPS fans. The shooting game they also have covered.

Right now, it seems bases are very limited. Not very dynamic, and lack any tools given by the system for different methods of capture, making it a bit stale.

Players refilling the silo right before it went neutral created some of the best moments in any game. So did the push/pull of generators, and spawn rooms. Clearing and repairing a squad defending a dropped generator was another epic moment that needs to stay.

My proof is the many stories, from life, as well as war stories from PS1 experiences.

I would like to see PS2 have multiple points to sway, or change how something is being captured. Thoes Deus ex machina Moments.

Duddy · 2012-06-08, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Stuff like this was part of core game play. Its part of what separated PS from other titles.

It was a feature of game play, a very interesting addition at that but the core of the game was that it was a Massive Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter.

I don't want to get particularly hung up on categorisation but the fact remains the game was marketed as, and is currently still, as a first person shooter. These types of features are supplemental to the experience and not what should be considered core.

Additionally, NTU almost stopped being relevant once it stopped being drained when players/vehicles were spawned. All that remained was a mechanic that reinforced maintenance (as it was spent to repair base facilities) and as a means of opening a base irrespective of lattice (via drains).

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

My proof is the many stories, from life, as well as war stories from PS1 experiences.

For just as many anecdotal dues ex machinas I think it is safe to say there were just as many, if not more more, exasperated sighs as one slowly drove an ANT from the nearest warpgate to a base.

This is of course subjective, but I think something that the target market SOE seem to be going for would not enjoy.

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

I would like to see PS2 have multiple points to sway, or change how something is being captured. Thoes Deus ex machina Moments.

I agree most fully, and expect the devs to show us something along those lines in due time. There certainly needs to be options, if there aren't then the game will suffer for it.

Dues ex machina moments will likely exist regardless of feature set however.

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-06-08, 01:55 PM

We need T2-style gens and destructible equipment (equipment stations, vehicle stations, radar, lighting etc...). Obviously we'll be getting alternative capture types (hopefully more than the CTF/CC versions in the original).

Some indoor vehicle terminals behind indestructo-windows would be nice (might already be in game actually).

The Hex/resource system has lots of potential to add to the strategic depth of the game, but it can't stop there.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-08, 01:58 PM

I'm sure they'll add more. They added more in PS1, and LLU was fun so I expect we'll see something like it come back, but it may not be until after release.

Also the demo showed 3 capture points, but in previous screenshots at that same amp station we saw 6-7 capture points. So they slimmed it down for the demo, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that amp station have a lot more tactical options come beta.

I SandRock · 2012-06-08, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Duddy

Doors: It seems there aren't (m)any save for the forcefields on spawn rooms that prevent entry.

As for your other points, as I discussed in that other thread, whilst they created some great moments they equally created just as many bad ones.

Generators, I feel, were ultimately more detrimental to the game than beneficial. Whilst the option was certainly effective, it was too effective far too often. More importantly it was the fact that it often detracted from active gameplay that.

Whilst I am disappointed to see the NTU system not make a return I can understand why. Most players saw it as more of a hassle, again something that took them out of core gameplay, rather than something fun. Not to say that it didn't have its moments.

I could go on, but my message is that I think that the removal of some of these features focuses people back on the core aspect of the game.

With that out of the way, I am concerned that we have only seen the capture system presented to us at Zhuravan(?) AMP station. They seem to have implied that there are more and differentiated systems but we have yet to see that.

I certainly hope that hacking/disruption is actually included and has substantial features to it. Again concerned we haven't seen much of it yet.

TL;DR

Most things that are gone seem to be for good reason, we haven't been shown enough diversity so far however.

Remove all 'hassles' and you're left with quite a dull unchallenging game. It's overcoming challenges / hassles which are the most memorable.

When you say Planetside my first thought is:
Entire team dropping from a galaxy on a base, fighting down to the basement, blowing the generator and holding the room against an overwhelming force.

Not:
Randomly shooting at people to capture point X for the millionth time. That's what eventually Planetside 2 will feel like. With every base being captured in the same way, after going back and forth capturing bases the same way for months you will wish there was a generator to blow up!

JHendy · 2012-06-08, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

Remove all 'hassles' and you're left with quite a dull unchallenging game. It's overcoming challenges / hassles which are the most memorable.

I agree. Well put.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-08, 02:01 PM

I think it would be interesting to see doors in a few places.

Make two types of doors - locked and unlocked. The unlocked ones can be opened by anyone, and the locked ones can only be unlocked (temporarily) by infiltrators. That sort of system would open up new pathways if you were an infiltrator or if you had an infiltrator with you.

More teamwork, more strategic options.

Normal doors would change things up and help them not be quite so exposed and open, though I think it is the locked infiltrator-only unlockable doors that are most interesting for gameplay.