Clans invited to play beta early! [Unconstructive whining will be deleted] - Page 25

Meatball Mobeus · 2012-06-13, 11:51 PM

Must... be.... patient.... GAAAHHHH!!!

**Malorn** · 2012-06-14, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by RedKnights

The strategy of getting people OUTSIDE the planetside community first, that run really tightknit clans, is actually a really really good idea, will attract a lot of attention, and make the game more far-reaching.

I absolutely agree that people outside the community is good - we are afterall not normal gamers and so they need the perspective of non-vets or they could easily lose touch with the larger MMO/FPS community. They will have a unique perspective that we vets will not have and can never have.

But that isn't reason to exclude vets - taking such people before vet clans is silly because they should be including both together simultaneously for maximum value. Outsiders and insiders - they'll give different perspectives and paint a complete picture of the game.

It's been 9 years since PS1 launched, and in that time most surviving PS1 outfits have been in multiple games - wow, rift, aion, war, multiple battlefields, cod, global agenda (I admit I hoped it would fill the planetside itch - not even close), multiple RTS games, TF2, dota clones, etc. If a PS1 outfit is still alive and well it is because it either survived in PS or it survived in other games. In either case, it's a highly successful outfit with diverse and valuable gaming experience.

They know the trials they had to complete in adjusting to different game models and adjusting to culture shifts. They know what they loved about PS1, and what they liked about other games since then and can give you meaningful comparisons. They can put all of that in the context of PS2 and give you a perspective that nobody else can - the perspective of a lot of experience with the game type.

Perception is another important part of their program and has doomed many games that went to beta with rough products that caused would-be gamers to be disappointed and walk away.

Game quality will affect judgement, and adding people who have little or no exposure or commitment to the game right at the beginning is risky. People can easily get jaded in a beta and write off a game, especially if they don't understand it. PS2 is a new genre for many people and that first impression will imprint on them. So if beta isn't highly polished, a pair of fresh eyes on the game might backfire and walk away because it didn't meet expectations. This is another area where vets can help, especially early on, to help stave off any negative impressions that might jade some of the fresh players.

I expect most vets would be a lot more tolerant to an unpolished game because we have a good idea of what the end-game picture will look like - something someone unfamiliar with PS1 will not have. We've been following the game for a long time and aren't likely going to walk away from it because we see some rough spots.

Moreover, we can share that knowledge with others who didn't have the experiences and help keep optimism high and provide context to some ideas and designs. Like the Grief system, which was quite revolutionary and one-of-a-kind in PlanetSide. We know how that sort of system pans out and places where it might not work so well, and how friendly fire can be positive to a game. Gamers coming from a non-friendly fire background might not understand that or how the system might pan out in a real setting. Managing large outfits in an FPS is another. It's very different from session-shooter clans and MMORPGs. Those are two examples where vet outfits and players can provide valuable and unique insight into discussions and give developers a rich and broad picture.

Vets offer irreplaceable value and it isn't simply because we played the game before. We have perspective. We have passion. We have experience. We know what was great about PlanetSide. We genuinely care about the game and we're in it for the long haul. We've seen a lot of what an MMOFPS can do and clearly we enjoyed it greatly. We can provide insight. We can provide historical context to discussions. We can do all that while also looking through the lens of other games before and after PlanetSide and PlanetSide itself.

All that said, fresh faces are also vitally important for very different reasons. You don't take one or the other - they need both together, and they need good samples from both. Together they will represent players well, different markets, and different perspectives and having all of those is what will make PlanetSide 2 the best it can be.

Anderz · 2012-06-14, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I absolutely agree that people outside the community is good - we are afterall not normal gamers and so they need the perspective of non-vets or they could easily lose touch with the larger MMO/FPS community. They will have a unique perspective that we vets will not have and can never have.

But that isn't reason to exclude vets...

But vets are not being excluded! Sooner or later, they will be let into the beta, they will provide feedback, and it will be taken into consideration. Just be patient.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-14, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by Anderz

But vets are not being excluded! Sooner or later, they will be let into the beta, they will provide feedback, and it will be taken into consideration. Just be patient.

Yes I know, please see the quote I referenced for context. It was discussing the merits of inviting non-vets first. I was explaining why both are needed.

I wasn't making any reference to what SOE is or is not doing; I was discussing the values of vets vs non-vets and why both are needed. No need to tell me to "be patient" - I have a lot of patience.

DirtyBird · 2012-06-14, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I absolutely agree that people outside the community is good - we are afterall not normal gamers and so they need the perspective of non-vets or they could easily lose touch with the larger MMO/FPS community. They will have a unique perspective that we vets will not have and can never have.

But that isn't reason to exclude vets...

I think the PSU community, that being the players (vets) and outfits that are regulars here, are currently being represented by Hamma and Jennyboo.

I have not dug much deeper to find who else from here is included but added guilds and names to the links in the other thread.
.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-14, 12:34 AM

Context, people. You are completely misreading what I wrote.

Mechzz · 2012-06-14, 01:09 AM

Quite the thread this one, and well done to Anderz for finding the story!

Thanks to Higby for dropping by with some kind words for the more frustrated amongst us.

For what it's worth, I think that a year or so from now we could be looking back and saying "wow, we were in at the start of something big, something that is really shaking up gaming".

SOE are really taking it seriously (as witnessed by First Platoon) and I've seen nothing but positive press on this new game. This really could be the game that takes the world of gaming by the scruff of the neck and sets its direction for the next 3-5 years.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-14, 01:13 AM

They've done a fantastic job with PR and marketing. That was what I perceived as the biggest failure of PS1 and I'm very happy to see they seem to be doing all the right things this time around. The positive buzz from GDC and E3 is a testament to how well they've done that.

I think the PS2 logo'd diaper was also quite genius in all the possible messages it can send.

ThermalReaper · 2012-06-14, 01:24 AM

I'm glad they are doing this because it'll help shape the game for beta. However, It makes you wonder how Outfits such as Ghost of the revolution and Azure(Asure?) twilight didn't make it.

GuyFawkes · 2012-06-14, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by Higby

Sorry you guys didn't hear directly from us about what was happening with this, you should have. A lot of balls in the air around here lately, we're doing our best to stay as communicative as possible without giving anyone any expectations we can't deliver on. It's a tough balance and we'll get better.

+1

occasionally people cant see the wood for the trees , missing the important fact that beta is on its way

its like being an expectant father , and the wife decides to invite her sisters and mother in law to the birth and you feeling pushed to one side. once the thing gets in motion , all that is forgotten and all you want is a safe delivery

Anderz · 2012-06-14, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Context, people. You are completely misreading what I wrote.

I read the context, but I'm trying to say that your post itself is out of context.

Veterans will soon enter the fold. VERY soon, from what it seems. So you're kind of blowing the situation out of proportion. From what we've been told, those involved in the First Platoon are not yet in the beta, just the forums. Yet you're talking as if they've been in the beta and have been giving feedback for months now. If anything, that's misreading the context.

Also, SOE are not silly. They know better to dramatically shake up their game based on limited feedback from first-time players, but it is important that they get that feedback. Veterans have been giving feedback for months, if not years, on PSU. This is a chance for other dedicated FPS communities to give their impressions directly, without their posts being overwhelmed by incoming veterans, who -- let's face it -- are bias toward nostalgia and often apprehensive about change. It's important to remember these are not casual gamers, either. They're hardcore gamers, and it's crucial to the survival of PS2 that it can become their game as much as ours. That way, they can become the veterans of PS3.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-14, 01:57 AM

Please stop trolling.

I said in my last reply to you that I wasn't talking about SOE, quit trying to twist my words into implying that I am.

It was a philosophical discussion about the merits of who should be invited into the First Platoon program and when to invite them. Nowhere does it make assertions or assumptions about what SOE is or is not doing. I was replying to another poster, not Higby nor was I replying to their plan of record. nor was I even remotely referring to beta. Savvy?

PoisonTaco · 2012-06-14, 01:57 AM

Most of the people here were either in PS1 or managed to snag a PC Gamer key. Don't worry we'll all get in soon enough.

Anderz · 2012-06-14, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Please stop trolling.

I said in my last reply to you that I wasn't talking about SOE, quit trying to twist my words into implying that I am.

It was a philosophical discussion about the merits of who should be invited into the First Platoon program and when to invite them. Nowhere does it make assertions or assumptions about what SOE is or is not doing. I was replying to another poster, not Higby nor was I replying to their plan of record. nor was I even remotely referring to beta. Savvy?

Hardly trolling, just challenging your opinion. It's called "discussion".

First of all, I'd argue your entire post was regarding the beta. In fact, that's the only context in which your statement regarding the exclusion of veterans can actually apply at all. When else would they be excluded?

Furthermore, I gave you a perfectly valid counterpoint to your philosophical discussion, and yet you completely dismissed it. Let me try again:

The reason why the First Platoon should not include vets is because, once the closed beta FORMALLY begins, veterans will be the ones dominating the conversations on the beta forums. When this happens, other beta participants new to the Planetside game and community will be run out of the discussion. You see it happen on PSU from time to time; a newbie makes a perfectly valid suggestion, and a veteran replies with a Picard facepalm because "it wasn't in Planetside" and therefore shouldn't even be considered in PS2. That's counter-productive, and the only way to foster the opinions of new players is to give them a forum free from that kind of discrimination and peer pressure. If that means letting a few of them into the beta early, then so be it.

As I said before, these are not casual gamers either, they're hardcore gamers who, for whatever reason, did not play PS1. Given how often Higby has stressed their goal of instantly capturing the familiar feel of a modern fps, this is their chance to gauge how successfully they've achieved that.

SKYeXile · 2012-06-14, 03:49 AM

Dear SOE,

As the undisputed winners of outfit wars and thus masters of Markov and therefore all servers, Future Crew, as the most elite PlanetSide outfit would now like to claim our rewarded that was never received. We require immediate beta access for 30 of our members, we would also like to give 10 to Delta Triad, 10 to Furious Angels and then a Further 15 keys to Hostile takeover and PCP, they deserve more because if they were up against lesser emerald outfits they would have easily won, its unfair of them not to be rewarded for been up against the almighty Future Crew.

I would also like 10 further keys for myself to hand them out to people i see fit.

If you do not accept the terms, then we can seek other arrangements, of the rainbow kind.

Signed,

ShockFC.
High Council, Future Crew Gaming.

per: SKYeXile
Council, Future Crew Gaming.