Tickets-Hack n Hold-LLU

[SixShooter]

From what we've seen so far, a ticket style capture system has been implemented. In the E3 footage they mention several times that this will not be the case for every base. I really hope that the old school hack and hold style will be implemented as well as the LLU type(of course with a different name since there is no such thing as a lattice anymore).

Tickets seem much like a BF Conquest type of method.

Hack and Hold (HnH) would be the PS1 style 15 minute wait time for a hack to go through.

LLU would be where you get a hack and then have to grab an object from that base and then deliver it to pre-determind friendly base.

I love the idea that all three gameplay styles could be implemented on a single cont. It gets even more fun if you have to HnH three or four points or have to run three or four LLU's

No poll because everyone here would totally go HnH most likely, but I would really like to see some opinions on how the different styles could change the gameplay up especially with multiple capture points.

I'm also interested in how to capture towers and bunkers and outposts and such. Since they'll play a larger role now I really don't think you should be able to flip them on a dime. I think they should be more like single base capture points.

Obviously everything has to do with adjoining hexes which could be very interesting for HnH timers. I'm just saying that capping territory could be way more fun than we realize. While I love the HnH method as i gives me time to take a piss a get a smoke, I love that it has the potential to be so very different in PS2.

[PredatorFour]

The return of hack n hold would be great but i dunno if it will make it. Theres an emphasis on things being quick to get into cos the average gamer nowadays has zero patience. I dont think they`ll like people sitting around making coffe/smokes whilst defending a 15 min hack. I`d like this Maybe they might reach a compromise and shorten it like the cave hacks to 8 mins or wateva it was, that could work.

It might even be cool to have a base, say a capitol, to have multiple methods of capping it. Like one part is HnH, then you got another third where its tickets, then another LLU or something different. Could spice it up abit.

[Littleman]

Depending on the number of adjacent friendly hexes and what you're attempting to take, hack -n- hold may take as little as 30 seconds to as long as 30 minutes. I expect most base points will take as a little as 3 to 5 minutes in the best case scenario for the offense. You have to consider there are multiple hack points within a base, so an empire has to take it piece by piece.

[InfraRed]

Playing PS1 the last few weeks have made me realise that HnH is a bit dated, or at least the current 15min timer is too long for todays gamers. If it isn't an outfit or dedicated vets guarding a hacked base, most people rush off to the next fight and you will often see bases get resecured for no reason other than not enough people stuck around for the entire time.

I am relieved when attacking a LLU base as its more exciting and quicker, especially if you are destined to take that base due to outnumbering the enemy. HnH in this situations becomes boring, and most people move on or are distracted (I play iOS games while waiting for a HnH when 99% sure it won't be resecured, which is often the case)

[Kezz]

I think there's a place for lots of different hack types.

Hack and hold is tedious if it takes ages, but if various factors under the control of players can speed it up, that's good.

A variant on hack and hold would be for each of several capture locations to have a short (tower-hack sortof style) hack to get control, and the controllers of points get "control points" to the whole facility which accumulate over time. Say each of 5 capture locations generates a "point" every minute, and you need an advantage of (10 + [number of adjacent hexes the defenders hold] - [number of adjacent hexes you hold]) points over the other owners of capture locations (the advantage would be capped at 10). So if it's a location on the front line, and each of the attacker and defender have 3 adjacent hexes, and you capture 3 of the 5 locations, it'll take 10 minutes to make the base go 'neutral' and another 10 minutes for it to fall under your control. If you get the other 2 locations after 5 minutes, the 15 remaining minutes needed will drop to 3, since you're now accumulating 5 points per minute. If, 3 minutes later, the defenders regain a control location, what would have taken 2.4minutes stretches out to a full 4 minutes. since your advantage has dropped to only 3. It makes the attackers hold their locations, since there are several places small remaining defense forces can attack, and the fastest hack would be taking all 5 locations in a surrounded hex, which would be less than a minute. Obviously all numbers are subject to variation.

LLU-style hacks are good because if they successfully get the LLU out of the hacked facility, and the defenders retain the capability, it will lead to open field skirmishes trying to retake/defending the maguffin.

[Pyreal]

The HnH could be changed to a cascading capture.

Step 1: x of Outer defense points have to be captured, once complete allows for
Step 2: x of Perimeter/Wall points, once complete allows for
Step 3: x of Subsystem points (shields, light gens, interior turrets)

And so forth.

With this system you get a progressing and escalating base capture, with each step weakening the defense, but with each step giving the defenders an opportunity to turn the battle.

The 15 minutes of boredom following the battle is a poor design, no point in denying it.

Here you have an engaging fight with a declared Win at the end, not a 15 minute snooze fest.

[Forsaken One]

To all above who talk about hack and hold being boring/annoying/ or trying to change it.

BEFORE you comment about it. remember this. 2,000 players, sped up time from point A to B, and with so many players someones going to be pissed you're trying to take their empires base.


Hell hack and hold could most likely even be 30 minutes and it will still be 30 minutes of edge of your seat on your alertness because most likely every 5 minutes you'll have to deal with a massive incoming wave of enemy gals and other things. sure you may end up with 1-5 minutes before waves but come on. that's 5 minutes of setting up your defenses with no base protection (because you most likely can't use the base defenses yourself as the base is not yet yours.) only to have a massive fleet of 20 full gals come out of no where hellbent on hacking the place back.


The change to 2,000 players will make a ps1 style hack and hold so much more awesome.

Thro I would like the CC to be hacked to be in a /deep/ building like place. it will be boring if its all in the open and they can just gal drop 100s+ men 100 feet from the cc.

[SixShooter]

Since there are like six or so cap points possible for each base, it would be cool to see something like having 5 HnH points before you could cap the main term with an LLU or even reversed could be fun.

[The Kush]

Yea let's compromise and just change the hold to 5-8 minutes

[Skepsiis]

Id really like to see the capture types somehow worked into the lore of the game so that everything you have to do has some plausible reason rather than just being a mechanic for the games sake, like left click with a rek here on the CC and a timer counts down from 15mins and you are done (a la ps1).

So like HnH type captures being where you have to get to the base mainframe and introduce a virus to the computer systems that needs a certain amount of time to take effect and spreads through the different components slowly taking effect (like maybe turrets go offline at 2mins, delays to the spawn tubes as they malfunction at 5mins, etc)

Or the ticket system being where the main base computer is protected by a several high grade firewalls and you need to capture and hold smaller nodes that are hard-wired in, and then direct them to begin a brute force attack trying to crack the codes.

Or the reason behind hack times being higher and lower due to surrounding hexes is because of the collaborative strength of the networked computer systems and you can look at some toggle-able overlay (perhaps an infiltrator cert?) that shows which hexes systems are contributing to their joining sectors and maybe showing a weak point in the system where one hex is having to actively separate its strength out to support 3 other linked hexes (thus making it easier, and quicker to hack and a good target of opportunity).

And a LLU being a scenario where you need to steal the computer data core from the enemy base and return it to one of your science facilities to analyse the electronic defence systems in place and find a vulnerability.

With all the accompanying audio and visuals like:
the ticket system - your nodes screens show a streaming list of alphanumeric data and as the tickets progress from nothing up to full the screens slowly show the digits locking in from left to right like hacking a password and you get the computerised voice over cues through out about progress like "firewall system alpha integrity at 50%", "alpha firewall has been compromised, total progress 20%"

Or, with the hack and hold - The HnH virus starts to spread through the computer systems and starts infecting computer consoles or screens up on the walls in the particular effected areas like a room labelled turret control go haywire (flickering distorted images and colours and flashing static) or spark and explode. Base announcement system - "WARNING, t-t-t-turret control has.....(much lower voice)has been........(normal voice again) h-h-has been compromised."

The above ideas are just the way you can explain some captures just with computer hacking being the overarching theme.

But they could expand on this to include things like physical interactions - im thinking something similar to the titan mode in bf2142 with missile silos battering down an energy forcefield as a first stage, then having to get troops and armor inside the base and disable the enemy bases anti aircraft guns targetting system so that you can then deploy galaxies to the open roof entrance and secure the base (would need alternative options and stalemate breakers added in as well).

Or protecting/taking/destroying the surrounding radar towers so that the super slow loading "big gun" artillery base has blind spots and doesn't get designated targets and then ground forces can move into the inner ring underground bunker network without taking insane losses and activate the controls that open the massive mechanical armoured wall gates that are blocking the friendly heavy armoured vehicles from moving in to support other ground troops from the withering anti infanty lightning turrets.

I really think that this kind of thing will add to immersion and could be really awesome and make all your actions mean something outside of just simply activating a game mechanic because that is how it works.

I know its probably a ton of work and you need enough variation in everything all the way down to the exact same micro event having like 5 or 6 different voice sentences recorded so that it doesn't get really repetitive and probably is not gonna happen, but I can dream.

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And to add to the discussion about hack and hold being fundamentally boring and outdated, i do agree because of the simple fact that usually there is almost nothing to do, or on the flip side you have almost zero hope of clearing the enemy out and getting the resecure

Hack and hold would still be a fun system if there was more going on and you had to actually defend the hack instead of just sitting there chatting to your outfit or whatever. If the spawn rooms stayed up (with more than one room, or at least many and/or giant shielded exits with auto turret defences to stop spawn camping) and there are enemies to kill, and they slowly start pushing you back to the CC, and you JUST need to hold on for that last 2mins to flip the spawns - i could see that being quite exciting and intense. Not sure how to balance something like this so that places are actually captureable by attackers, maybe make the HnH sites relatively remote and distant from the spawn room/s? So that respawning attackers can hoof it to the fight about as quickly or once inside can unlock and open up shortcuts like doors and shields, maybe capture their own smaller spawn room within the facility.

[SnipeGrzywa]

I actually like a lot of these ideas.

First, the design around the original 15 mins HnH was the concept of when hack went through it would give you 5 mins to try to re secure from spawn room, then when spawn/gen went down you still had 10 mins to respond, get in vehicles, get back to base for another try. Then if that failed you had a few minutes to get new vehicles/defenses up.

I've been apart of heavy fights that lasted the entire 15 mins. I even remember an hr fight where the opposing faction would secure CC with not enough time to hack. So the base switched empires 4 times in a row.

Ya, can be boring for the assaulting team, but hey, this is WAR. There are unfortunately down times in war. Risk you take, either stay and defend or keep assaulting and risk the re secure.


Back on topic, I like the tiered obj idea. Would have to be random though. Don't want infils camping the terminals, hacking as they become available. Want to actually fight for the points.

[PhoenixDog]

I do enjoy the ticket system so far as it lends to securing several points and having to defend several points. Gives emphasis on strategy and recon (knowing which points to take and when, as well as which points are too contested and which are quick). The HnH is a stable of PS1 and I would personally hate to see it go. However, regardless of the ADD generation or not...15min was a long time in PS1. Sure, I've been on both sides of a sub-30sec re-secure (even a last second one or two), but under most circumstances, it was a lot of waiting around and TK'ing (though mostly in jest).

The LLU however I always felt was silly. The entire concept of having to take a unit from one base to another...It's too CTF'y...And Planetside isn't about CTF. I would definitely like to see both the ticket and HnH in PS2 as well as a third option...Just not a flag.

[The noob]

Is it possible that the hack and hold gameplay might have been moved to towers and outposts? I remember that they said that outposts and towers have a "King of the Hill" type of capture mechanics, which in some ways reminds me of Hack and Hold.

[GreatMazinkaise]

LLUs have to make a return... it just wouldn't be Planetside without CTF (as part of the Tribes family). The current capture mechanics favor numbers more than the old ones, unfortunately, especially with auto-generated Your Base is Being Hacked missions telling everyone where to go. Hopefully automated mission spam will be disabled shortly after release once players gain the proper certifications.

[Fizzgig]

How about this for an idea...

Say a base has 3 capture points. Once the first capture point is taken, the attacking force then have 5 minutes to capture another. Upon the second point being taken, they get an extra 5 minutes for the last point. Once the last point is taken they then have to hold them all for a further 5 minutes. This would make it quite tense for the last 5 minutes, and could mean a base hack could vary from just over 5 minutes to the full 15 that we see in PS1 at the moment.