Infiltrators Useless Now? - Page 3

Ghoest9 · 2012-11-10, 10:56 AM

I honestly didnt see the problem.
Its not really any better than the LA with a shot gun. They are both fast assult troops that are weak at holding a position.
You still have way less armor and you arent actually invisible.

2 competent players going head to head and it still favored the heavy over an inf.

Kail · 2012-11-10, 11:07 AM

Might be removing shotguns, but they are going to be giving pistols some attention. Someone on another forum was saying about sniper's getting a scout rifle or SMG instead, but I'm not sure where that's coming from.

Ghoest9 · 2012-11-10, 11:28 AM

Well that would be nice.

I remember early on the plan was that pistols would be legitimate weapons but over time they lost out.

It would be nice if at really close range that did commensurate damage to carbines or assault rifles.

Figment · 2012-11-10, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Hes saying the shotgun was a crutch.
It wasnt.

The class is broken by deign. Adding the shotgun at least made it a useful fun class. With or with out the shotgun its nothing like the PS 1 infiltrator.

he saying "I want steak but you gave me pizza - so lets take the cheese off the pizza because that somehow makes it more like steak."

No, that isn't what I was saying...

I'm saying the game should have never ignored the true infil role instead of ignoring it and favour the assassin role. Look up other threads on infils by my hand.

PredatorFour · 2012-11-10, 02:30 PM

The classic PS infil is now defunct due to the class system. I loved infil in the original...i could lay mines/boomers (c4) lay turrets... most of the classic infil`s tools has been given to the engy class.

Dagron · 2012-11-10, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

No, that isn't what I was saying...

I'm saying the game should have never ignored the true infil role instead of ignoring it and favour the assassin role. Look up other threads on infils by my hand.

The point is that they did make the infiltrator more an assassin than an actual infiltrator and it would take some serious redesign in a lot of areas to make them the way you want, from the class system to weapons to base layouts to who knows what else, and that seems extremely unlikely at this point.
That's what he meant by "they gave us pizza instead of steak", and taking away a couple of things from the infiltrator now won't make people who wanted a true infiltrator happy, it will only make people who like it as an assassin unhappy along with them.
The only thing that can be done now is to find a way to make it balanced and fun.

Helwyr · 2012-11-10, 03:51 PM

Lots of strong opinions here on what an Infiltrator ought to be, the beauty of an open cert and inventory system is they likely all would have been true.

IMO The Sniper in PS2 isn't useless in taking and defending territory (depends on the base) and the Sniper role is something the Infiltrator does well in PS2.

I didn't think the shotgun was OPed on an Infiltrator, it reminded me a lot of the old AMP and MagScat Infiltrators that used to run around in PS1. That said it's no skin off my nose that they're removing it, I'd much prefer a Carbine or AR like weapon. More than that I'd prefer a real cloak a pistol and a reliable knife.

The biggest gap in Infiltrator gameplay is what others have eluded to already, the lack of much reason to "infiltrate" to begin with. The class is all about killing because there isn't much else yet. Blowing generators as someone mentioned would likely be better done with LA than an Infiltrator.

ringring · 2012-11-10, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Helwyr

Lots of strong opinions here on what an Infiltrator ought to be, the beauty of an open cert and inventory system is they likely all would have been true.

IMO The Sniper in PS2 isn't useless in taking and defending territory (depends on the base) and the Sniper role is something the Infiltrator does well in PS2.

I didn't think the shotgun was OPed on an Infiltrator, it reminded me a lot of the old AMP and MagScat Infiltrators that used to run around in PS1. That said it's no skin off my nose that they're removing it, I'd much prefer a Carbine or AR like weapon. More than that I'd prefer a real cloak a pistol and a reliable knife.

The biggest gap in Infiltrator gameplay is what others have eluded to already, the lack of much reason to "infiltrate" to begin with. The class is all about killing because there isn't much else yet. Blowing generators as someone mentioned would likely be better done with LA than an Infiltrator.

And that's sad. There were people who played infil because they didn't like or perhaps couldn't cope with the hurley-burley of fps and they found a role that fitted a more considered approach.

PredatorFour · 2012-11-10, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by ringring

And that's sad. There were people who played infil because they didn't like or perhaps couldn't cope with the hurley-burley of fps and they found a role that fitted a more considered approach.

Or just wanted to be stealthy,play the game more differently to all the HA AV clones out there, or more importantly .. have fun.

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-11-10, 08:59 PM

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Infiltrators aren't in the game yet.
Snipers are, but infils aren't.

As for the shotgun being like the AMP and Magscatter, well, the AMP and Magscatter were both very conditional weapons. You normally always wanted to get the drop on someone and hit them when they were exposed. As for how many you could kill between reloads I know if you were perfect the AMP could drop 2 people (15 per sans medpacks). The Magscatter had a massive spread so range really dictated shots to kill. But with either weapon your target got reaction time.
The shotguns from what I've seen are super lethal at close range (where a lot of infantry combat happens in bases) and the cloaker's ability to ambush naturally gets them into that range.

I'm going to go back and refer to what the devs said their idea behind the current cloak mechanic was. They said it was to ask as a gillie suit for sniper so they could move from position to position. Fair enough that's reasonable and it's designed as such. The system was never made to support or interact with shotguns. The fact that cloakers were allowed to use them at all speaks to me that some of the groups inside the dev team aren't communicating or aren't talking to each other. We're close enough to open beta that I don't think this problem will be solved between now and then but after it should be definitely addressed in some fashion that doesn't increase paper work.

Figment · 2012-11-10, 10:19 PM

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=41034

Hamma · 2012-11-10, 11:05 PM

They were pretty upfront that the Shotgun on Infiltrators was just a test.

Jaybonaut · 2012-11-10, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Full. Time. Cloak.

Screw shotguns. Give me explosives, pistols for defense, gen shield passing and covert (?) hacking. Shotguns? Pah.

For the record, I still hope they will make snipers their own suit/class at some point because as someone put it on the PS2 forums: Snipefils are like ninjas with longbows. It doesn't make sense.

This. This is sooo true.

Helwyr · 2012-11-11, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

[...]
I'm going to go back and refer to what the devs said their idea behind the current cloak mechanic was. They said it was to ask as a gillie suit for sniper so they could move from position to position. Fair enough that's reasonable and it's designed as such. The system was never made to support or interact with shotguns. The fact that cloakers were allowed to use them at all speaks to me that some of the groups inside the dev team aren't communicating or aren't talking to each other. We're close enough to open beta that I don't think this problem will be solved between now and then but after it should be definitely addressed in some fashion that doesn't increase paper work.

Yes, I'm fine with the cloak as a gillie suit for a Sniper, I'm not sure the current cloak is quite living up to even that though with the current visibility and of course the absurdly loud (de)activation noise. But the general idea of an imperfect short duration cloak for snipers is perfectly fine IMO.

I've also suspected that parts of the dev team don't communicate well. One of my pet peeves in any MMO or shooter is radar mechanics, and its implementation in PS2 is good example of this disconnect. The Vehicle design team have added loads of radar options for vehicles that detect Infantry which alone seems a rather dubious idea, but add to that the Infantry team has added no counters to vehicle radar even when such an option does exist for vehicles. This speaks to me of two teams designing in isolation from one another.