Should being revived count as a death?

[GLaDOS]

Originally Posted by NewSith

the revival tool in Battlefield is shock paddles (defibs)

Those always crack me up. "HE'S BEEN RUN OVER BY A TANK! GET THE PADDLES! WE CAN SAVE HIM!!!!"

[Erendil]

Yes, it should count. A death is a death, and the decision to respawn or wait for a Medic should not be influenced by whether or not it preserves some worthless stat like K/D.

The respawn mechanic is already pretty fast, and I'd hate to have numerous teammates lying all over the place as corpses for long periods of time waiting for a Medic that might or might not come around to revive them just so they can preserve their K/D, when they could've just respawned and in that timeframe actually helped my empire out in the current battle. If you want to wait for a Medic, IMO it should be because it is more beneficial from a tactical/logistical standpoint than respawning. Not to preserve some e-peen stat.

I'm all for giving incentives to people that facilitates the use of support abilities, but this is not the way to go about it.

[SKYeXile]

The only people that want this change though are people that roll around in a group with a boatload of medics where they can get constant revives and so then on paper they look better than what they actually are.

[Babyfark McGeez]

There is actually a pretty simple answer:
In this game you get a death-screen that clearly states that you died. A medic can bring you back from the dead.
It would be different if you would be "critically wounded" and a medic would "patch you up", but you die and get revived, therefore i voted yes, death is death, reviving irrelevant for that count.

[TheStigma]

I think it should NOT count as a death if you are revived.

Ultimately it doesn't matter THAT much in PS2 simply because there are no "ticket" systems in the game yet, and KDR in this game is very much divorced from how helpful you have actualyl been for your empire - so its not a metric that is terribly important.

That said I think it should not count revived deaths due to small details like preserving kill-streaks, and in case they ever put in any sort of ticket mechanics (like galaxies having limited respawn tickets loaded for its AMS system or something).

It also removes a lot of un-needed animosity towards medics. If deaths from revives count then medics are blamed every time they revive someone who doesn't manage to get back into cover. (some) players get mad because they percieve this as getting punished for someting they had no control over, and medics (despite best efforts and intentions) get a lot of flak in return for just genuinely trying to help people... Remove the death-count on revive and this solves all of those problems.

Finally you have to ask what is hte point of reviving when it counts as a death anyway? If there is a spawn close by then you could just respawn there with full ammo and helath and grenades ect. rather than coming back in a much riskier situation with half-used resources AND still a deathcount added to your tally regardless. The only point seems to be preventing a long travel-time back to where you were. I think we can afford to take away the deahtcount as an added carrot.

-Stigma

[TheStigma]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

The only people that want this change though are people that roll around in a group with a boatload of medics where they can get constant revives and so then on paper they look better than what they actually are.

Over-generalization alarm!...

-Stigma

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by TheStigma

Over-generalization alarm!...

-Stigma

its all about the stats man.

[TheStigma]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

its all about the stats man.

I can think about at least ONE reason that matters to everyone and doesn't have anything to do directly with stats - killstreak bonuses (as trivial as they are currently). As far as I remember they reset both on revival and on redeploy currently - neither of which are really deaths that should be "punished".

I just think its a good thing to have a little more incentive to reviving people than it being purely about saving them the walk back form the closest S-AMS, because in that case there literally isn't any point in reviving in many cases.

Besides - KDR whores will all be flying ESFs anyway so they don't give a shit about revivals right?

-Stigma

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by TheStigma

I can think about at least ONE reason that matters to everyone and doesn't have anything to do directly with stats - killstreak bonuses (as trivial as they are currently). As far as I remember they reset both on revival and on redeploy currently - neither of which are really deaths that should be "punished".

I just think its a good thing to have a little more incentive to reviving people than it being purely about saving them the walk back form the closest S-AMS, because in that case there literally isn't any point in reviving in many cases.

Besides - KDR whores will all be flying ESFs anyway so they don't give a shit about revivals right?

-Stigma

This part is wrong, obviously if you were revived, you had died and your stats and killstreak should reflect that failure.

I cant tell the vehicle whores from the infantry apart, i expect statistical k/ds of 10/1 from vehicle whores if i do 5/1 as infantry.

[TheStigma]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

This part is wrong, obviously if you were revived, you had died and your stats and killstreak should reflect that failure.

I cant tell the vehicle whores from the infantry apart, i expect statistical k/ds of 10/1 from vehicle whores if i do 5/1 as infantry.

Wait, how is that a failure? If I peek a corner to scout out the corridor full knowing that my medic buddy has my back if someone pops me - how is that any different to a Max peeking that same corner safe in knowing that his engineer buddy repairing him makes him practically invincible right then. Both are just examples of the classes using their skills appropriately.

Should similarly the KDR and killstreaks reflect when you would have ran out of health if it weren't for heals you received - or when you wouldn't have had more ammo to kill anyone with if it weren't for the ammo you were given?

It also just seems a bit weird to say that you "died" 4 times during that battle yet were able to walk away from it in good cheer afterwards. In more realistic terms the "dead" state we see in game has to be some kind of critically-wounded state - unless all medics are pulling the old Lazarus-trick on each revive.

Anywho - I don't feel like getting into a big heated debate on this so that's probably my last post. Its not worth getting worked up over.

-Stigma

[JesNC]

Where's the "Who gives about KDR anyway?" option?


IMO Score/hour > KDR. KDR only shows how good you are at farming kills from relative safety.

[Memeotis]

Originally Posted by Anderz

No! Making it count as a death will give casual players -- i.e. COD/BF3 players who care about their KDR -- even less of an incentive to work as a team. However, making revives NOT count as a death will encourage them to stick closer to medics and their squad, as it will less likely damage their precious KDR if they go down. By showing these players the statistical benefits of playing as a team, they'll feel less inclined to go lone wolf.

In Bad Company 2, revives counted as a death and squad play was hampered as a result. Far fewer revives, and sometimes, you actually got abused by players for reviving them because it not only counted as a death, but put them back in the line of fire -- a situation they consider to be worse than respawning back at base.

I don't want to see teamwork similarly punished in PS2. So in short, DO NOT make revives count as deaths.

Agreed.

Along with this they should add an additional statistic called 'incapacitated', 'take-downs' (or whatever), which counts every time you have been brought down. This would effectively replace the conventional death-counter, by showing how many times you've been brought down to 0 HP. The benefit of this is that you would be able to compare a persons incapacitated-counter with the death-counter in the form of a ratio:

Incapacitations
Deaths

From this ration you would be able to tell whether this player stays near medics, and it would give an indication as to whether he is a team player or not. The higher the numerator, the more this person stays near medics.

For dummies:

Team-player:

100 Incapacitations
10 Deaths

Lone-wolf:

100 Incapacitations
95 Deaths

[Grognard]

LOL Eyeklops... given the subject of this thread, the day it was started, its current state, and the individual who "revived" it... the irony is not lost on me

[TheStigma]

Originally Posted by Memeotis

Agreed.

Along with this they should add an additional statistic called 'incapacitated', 'take-downs' (or whatever), which counts every time you have been brought down. This would effectively replace the conventional death-counter, by showing how many times you've been brought down to 0 HP. The benefit of this is that you would be able to compare a persons incapacitated-counter with the death-counter in the form of a ratio:

Incapacitations
Deaths

From this ration you would be able to tell whether this player stays near medics, and it would give an indication as to whether he is a team player or not. The higher the numerator, the more this person stays near medics.

For dummies:

Team-player:

100 Incapacitations
10 Deaths

Lone-wolf:

100 Incapacitations
95 Deaths

Agreed. the best way to handle it overall is to have a seperate stat for it. it just gives more granularity to the stats which is always a good thing regardless if you are the type that cares about your stats "being good" or not.

-Stigma