Liberators too strong? - Page 10

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-12-31, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

*SMACKS CHU UPSIDE THE HEAD!*

You don't see a problem here, do you?

"Pff, noobs, why aren't they a highly coordinated squad/PLATOON with perfect communication and timing so they can take out my single three man Liberator?!"

...That's what you sound like, because you are an arrogant kill-whoring ass who doesn't see what the problem is.

You should NEVER be capable of suppressing the Spawn Room with Air Superiority...
The MOST you should be able to point at those spawn doors is a Tank Cannon, if that!

Do you ever stop and ask yourself why people call this game "Airside 2"?
It's because Air Superiority is the ONLY deciding factor in the game right now due to HORRID base designs.

Hell, at least Armor spam is limited by terrain, so Amerish's mountains allow Infantry to fight against that...

...But why bother with Infantry when a SINGLE LIB, let alone the four or five that are actually going to be hovering overhead, can shut down a base by its lonesome?

...Is the Liberator itself too strong?
Not really in my own opinion, in PROPER fighting conditions it's perfectly balanced for its role as an Air-to-Ground platform...
...But when you are hurting for cover overhead as SOON as you leave a spawn shack, it just IS NOT FAIR!

...God damn, I'd have hated for you jerks to get your hands on "Bunker Busting" bombs...

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

It's in the rules. I'm an asshole. So suck my dick.

I'm not hacking, I'm not cheating, I'm not doing anything the devs have declared illegal.

The game I'm playing is called frustrationside. I'm making you all ragequit so that my team wins.

ExplodingSilver · 2012-12-31, 08:52 PM

It occurred to me that if SOE released the stats data stream, we could number crunch and get a true (er mathematical) picture of how OP libs are or not

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-12-31, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

This is the post of the year right here.

Happy New Year.

Thanks. Feels good to be the best. [edit:] I actually agree that there's not enough cover for the foot troopers. It really makes it too easy with thermal or infravision to see these little ants explode. About the best they can do at the moment is to hide at the corner of a building where I don't have a clear shot - when I get my pilot to circle around, they run around the corner away from me... Either way, I've suppressed the spawn room and they are unable to defend the base so I'm still doing my job. Less kills though. [/edit]

Originally Posted by ExplodingSilver

It occurred to me that if SOE released the stats data stream, we could number crunch and get a true (er mathematical) picture of how OP libs are or not

Libs are very OP against zerglings. Against the most mediocre organisation they are basically rendered useless. It honestly only takes 3 guys (OMG! THERES 3 PEOPLE IN A LIB!!! Does that mean it's balanced maybe?) to pull maxes or esfs and my lib is unable to spawn camp. Ok, maybe you can't actually KILL me, but you can stop me being a dick spawncamp mofo.

Look, in all seriousness (I'm being a useful, constructive member of society now) the flipside to my earlier arrogant prick post is that *I* have had to organise 2 other people to be able to do what I do, and spend 1800 certs. I'm winning and you're all screaming NERF because of it.

Imagine what would happen if you organised 2 other people to get rid of libs? If you all spent 1800 certs on it? Imagine 3 ESFs with guided missiles and A2A cannons all firing at the same target? I'll tell you... No more libs and you get to keep your A2A scythes/mozzies to kill Gals and reavers!

Sunrock · 2013-01-01, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Well YES...

Liberator filled Air means Ground Transports are just bundles of XP waiting to be shot, and they more then likely HAVE Air-to-Air support in order to have gained Air Dominance in the first place...

That was not that we talked about we talked about being pined down in the spawn room in general. If pined down with Libs then yea you go air.

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Fuck off, ask anyone on this forum what needs to happen, and 9 times out of ten it will be Base Redesigns.

There isn't anywhere in this game for Infantry to actually ACT as Infantry, we just capture points for our Vehicle swarms or make a minor nuisance of ourselves for the enemies'.

That is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about nerfing the libirator or not... And what do you mean by act like infantry? Act like 1700 centry infantry? No of course not because if you march in big columns between bases your fucked. But there is a place in this game for 2000 century mechanized infantry. Besides Bio Labs are designed to be infantry heavy.

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Then go play CoD you CoDdie, this is suppose to be PLANETSIDE!

COD is a FPS game where you can only play as infantry. So I think that game is more suited for you. Where I don't want to see any changes to vehicles might actually like this game.

Now who is the idiot that could not figured that out?

psijaka · 2013-01-01, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by ExplodingSilver

It occurred to me that if SOE released the stats data stream, we could number crunch and get a true (er mathematical) picture of how OP libs are or not

Would love to see this data, but I'm guessing that it will not see the light of day.

I would wager that the top of the leaderboards (if they were working) would be heavily populated by Lib users, with a smattering of MBT and Rocket pod farmers in there as well.

belch · 2013-01-01, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

Thanks. Feels good to be the best. [edit:] I actually agree that there's not enough cover for the foot troopers. It really makes it too easy with thermal or infravision to see these little ants explode. About the best they can do at the moment is to hide at the corner of a building where I don't have a clear shot - when I get my pilot to circle around, they run around the corner away from me... Either way, I've suppressed the spawn room and they are unable to defend the base so I'm still doing my job. Less kills though. [/edit]

Libs are very OP against zerglings. Against the most mediocre organisation they are basically rendered useless. It honestly only takes 3 guys (OMG! THERES 3 PEOPLE IN A LIB!!! Does that mean it's balanced maybe?) to pull maxes or esfs and my lib is unable to spawn camp. Ok, maybe you can't actually KILL me, but you can stop me being a dick spawncamp mofo.

Look, in all seriousness (I'm being a useful, constructive member of society now) the flipside to my earlier arrogant prick post is that *I* have had to organise 2 other people to be able to do what I do, and spend 1800 certs. I'm winning and you're all screaming NERF because of it.

Imagine what would happen if you organised 2 other people to get rid of libs? If you all spent 1800 certs on it? Imagine 3 ESFs with guided missiles and A2A cannons all firing at the same target? I'll tell you... No more libs and you get to keep your A2A scythes/mozzies to kill Gals and reavers!

He really is speaking the truth...even if he is being an asshole about it.

Hell, just me, 1 guy in a skeeter, can clean an objective of enemy Lib's. I've done it many times. But, it does mean your ESF drivers need to pull their nose up off of the ground. Truth is, so many are interested in doing just what the Lib's are doing...farming infantry with rocket pods. But believe me when I say that as a lone ESF, I have run multiple Liberators off of an objective.

CrankyTRex · 2013-01-01, 03:32 PM

The problem is that air should always dominate ground because that's how it works. That's why air superiority is always so important.

Normally this is countered by having cover to take shots from and ground forces being hard to spot individually, which this game severely lacks. There is really no place to hide. No caves, no underground structures or tunnels to use, no thick vegetation, etc. That was what made Battlefield 2's air so ridiculous, as not only was their little cover, but the capture points were even out in the open. At least PS2 puts some of them indoors.

So instead of a bunch of infantry going downstairs through a tunnel to the capture point (or another building), they absolutely must walk outside into the waiting arms of Death from Above. (For a universe that has teleporters, this is doubly ridiculous as there's no reason anyone should ever have to be outside.)

Short of fixing that, we will never solve the air to ground balance issues because either air gets nerfed to useless or ground gets abused by the air power mercilessly.

As far as the short-term, short-sighted fix to the Liberator and it's HE guns, the only real thing to do is to force them to come into range and restrict their angle of attack. That means making the HE guns become absurdly inaccurate the farther away you get and substantially reducing their viewing angle. Thus if you fly at the ceiling and you try and bomb a spawn point, you'll be lucky to hit the base at all, and there'll be none of that roll over and shoot bombs at the ESFs silliness since it'll be near impossible to get that angle.

Rodel · 2013-01-01, 03:52 PM

Lib = Antiground
Max = Anti-fighter
Fighter = AntiLib

That's the formula I think they should shoot for.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2013-01-01, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Rodel

Lib = Antiground
Max = Anti-fighter
Fighter = AntiLib

That's the formula I think they should shoot for.

And you know what? It wouldn't take much tweaking to achieve that at all.

Lib damage output is fine. Maybe the accuracy of the dalton could be lowered and the splash of the zephyr too, but I think if it was slower in the air that'd be great. I don't think libs should be able to "nearly" outrun fighters, no matter what upgrades they have. Libs should be really big, fat targets for small, nimble fighters. Additionally, increase the missile speeds all round. They seem to travel at the speed of a flash rather than a missile.

In terms of hitpoints, I think Libs are pretty good. Maybe 10% too tough. I've maxed out the armour for my lib and it gets shredded by a couple of maxes. It's rare to actually get killed, but I can't do my job if there's 3 maxes in the area. Against ESFs, it's only a couple of missiles followed by a magazine of cannon fire and we're burning, so that's actually quite fair.

The MAX vs ESF thing is pretty good right now, maybe up the max damage a bit or lower the ESF resistance to burster fire a bit but it's very close to what I'd expect.