Spawn Room Shield Changes

typhaon · 2013-06-24, 11:52 PM

They drop when the SCU is destroyed.

This is now a universal change for the larger bases?

It's fine if that is the way people want things... but in that case, I'd say the bases need ANOTHER re-design. The SCUs should be in places that are more easily defended... more accessible to the defenders and less so, to the attackers.

If only there was another game that had done this before.... Hmmmm....

camycamera · 2013-06-25, 12:01 AM

it is a step in the right direction, however yeah it needs work. also, smaller outposts are still shit to fight in, because it ends with the defenders hiding in their spawn shooting through the shields. they need to fix this stuff naow.

Shogun · 2013-06-25, 05:53 AM

yep, complete base and outpost overhaul is necessary ASAP!

all this workarounds don´t really fix the problem of bad spawn placement.

the spawns need to be near the things we have to defend, and they need to be destructible. not by destroying some undefendable generator who is far away, but by shooting at the spawntubes! put the spawnrooms out of reach of vehicles and get rid of the shields, or put little terminals next to them that cloakers can hack to open the shields like ps1 doors.

but we have plenty of threads about this issue already, and yet no answer from the devs, if they are going to do it, or if they even realise the problem. all the workarounds they introduce seem to be a hint that they don´t see the problem, or don´t want to put so much work in it.
but it has to be done, and if they would do it now, they wouldn´t have to waste even more work on defective workarounds over and over again.

AThreatToYou · 2013-06-25, 05:55 AM

1) Spawns underground
2) Some direct, combat-related way to disable the spawn tubes
3) Removal of spawn shields either permanently, or by generator

Qwan · 2013-06-25, 07:52 AM

Ok here is an idea for the smaller outpost. The spawn room tubes are destructable, and the shield can only take so much damage. Lets say you roll up into a small base or outpost. Start the hack, attackers can pound at the spawn room shields and this will deplet there nanit capacity, when the shields go down, then attackers can take out the tubes. Now here is the catch, attackers cant start depleting the shields until the capture points are taken. If the outpost is resecured the shield capacity goes back up. But once inside they can take out the spawn tubes. So what cha think.

Figment · 2013-06-25, 08:53 AM

So the shields go down now? Good. Now for proper SCU placement...

Originally Posted by Qwan

So what cha think.

That resecuring should be possible first and that spam promotion is rather lame.

Shogun · 2013-06-25, 08:57 AM

if it´s really impossible to send the small outpost spawns underground, change the shield so small bullets can pass the shield in both directions.

the dhields were introduced because a single tank or liberator could supress all spawning by firing through the windows or doors.

but hackable shieldlocks like the doorlocks in ps1 would also work fine.
so a cloaker could sneak up to the lock and either disable them completely for a short time, or just disable the fireblocking ability, or just the walkthrough blocking. would need some testing to check what makes more sense or is more fun.

Wahooo · 2013-06-25, 12:35 PM

This is putting a small bandage on an inconsequential scrape on an arm when we are hemorrhaging from the leg.

If the major problem with people sitting in the spawn room shooting out was... well just people sitting in the spawn room shooting out the fix would be fine.

The PROBLEM is how hard it is to push out and re-take or stop a base from being taken. You can push it off for a while but once it reaches a tipping point the base is lost and all you can do is try and farm kills from your spawn. Farming kills from the spawn isn't the part that's broken it is everything that leads up to doing that.

This doesn't help or fix anything really.

Shogun · 2013-06-25, 12:41 PM

that´s why i´m constantly asking for a complete base layout overhaul.

the other stuff would only be temporary fix any my try to at least put an end to the spawn camping/waiting boredom until we get a real solution.

Figment · 2013-06-25, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Wahooo

This is putting a small bandage on an inconsequential scrape on an arm when we are hemorrhaging from the leg.

If the major problem with people sitting in the spawn room shooting out was... well just people sitting in the spawn room shooting out the fix would be fine.

The PROBLEM is how hard it is to push out and re-take or stop a base from being taken. You can push it off for a while but once it reaches a tipping point the base is lost and all you can do is try and farm kills from your spawn. Farming kills from the spawn isn't the part that's broken it is everything that leads up to doing that.

This doesn't help or fix anything really.

They keep putting in one thing at a time. And they never just make a complex building system with spawns inside. :/ Underground or deep within the building, one way or another... It has to be done eventually... For now, modular building complex will remain the major pain to base design.

Crator · 2013-06-25, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

They keep putting in one thing at a time. And they never just make a complex building system with spawns inside. :/ Underground or deep within the building, one way or another... It has to be done eventually... For now, modular building complex will remain the major pain to base design.

While I understand baby steps I didn't think they would follow the literal aging process of a baby. :P Hopefully we'll see more of these things being tried sooner rather then later.

bpostal · 2013-06-25, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

They keep putting in one thing at a time. And they never just make a complex building system with spawns inside. :/ Underground or deep within the building, one way or another... It has to be done eventually... For now, modular building complex will remain the major pain to base design.

To build? Maybe. To design? I'm not sure.
I've seen some good designs on the forums >_> that look like they've at least got some kinda flow to them (and were designed with defensibility in mind). Base design should not encourage spawn camping.
I'll not start beating the horse again. It's already dead, all I'll say on this topic is that I like the shields dropping. Stop camping, clean the area up and move on with your life.

Figment · 2013-06-25, 03:51 PM

Wouldn't say it's a dead horse.

A camped horse certainly, but not dead.

Wahooo · 2013-06-25, 04:38 PM

Right now it is a step backwards NOT a baby step forward.

This is the same crap that went round and round with weird fixes to the crown, when the CROWN wasn't the problem it was the battle flow around the whole continent, or rather the lack of.

I haven't even been back to the crown since the lattice was implemented. Been to TI alloys, been to cross-road watchtower, been in a couple big fights at Zurvan.

Pre-lattice I would default to the crown when I just felt like shooting shit.

SAME thing with spawns and camping them, from an attackers and defenders point of view. The real problem is deep, complex and will take a LOT to fix. But should not have been the first step.

Rivenshield · 2013-06-25, 06:38 PM

Boy, a lotta people who don't read their patch release notes (or peruse PSU) are in for one whale of a surprise...

With all respects to Wahoo and others, it *is* a step in the right direction... that absolutely demands several more in fairly rapid succession. Outpost spawn shields need a way to be taken down. And EVERYTHING needs to be made more defensible. This calls for better layout -- not handwaves like magic spawn shields, sky domes, or other baloney. There's already been so much painstaking time and effort put into this topic; so many informed discussions, complete with illustrations....

Leaving aside the outposts for a moment: Without causing a gigantic pain in the dev-neck in the form of wholesale base redesign, how do you make the SCU in the major bases more defensible? By base type?

Only thing I can think of is to put a couple spawn tubes in small armored phone booths near the SCU itself. And the spawn-outhouse itself has to stop being this open construct and start resembling a small bunker. Two doors max. Keep the one-way shields active on the windows, and narrow them so they resemble rifle slits. Some of the base spawns have upper stories -- okay, so stick some spawn tubes up there too so we can have these raging-ass indoorsy battles.

(Also: The fact that spawn tubes are now destructible is a major, MAJOR game-changer. Not only do we once again get the fierce joy of gunning the bastards in their tubes, but they can stick those things ANYWHERE -- and they should. Once more, infiltrators will have something to do. Multiple destructible spawn points FTW!)

EDIT: Uh... they *are* destructible, aren't they? Or are they going to let the campers run riot? Or does it merely shut off both shields *and* tubes? which would be lame and boring? I haven't played in about a week.