I still think the weapons are boring as shit.

[Omnimon]

Few reasons why weapons are boring :

1 ) Weapons have to be boring because its easier to balance. Notice how anything that seems to be " OP " that defines an empire gets nerfed into the ground and/or replicated so that other factions could have that weapon ?

Imagine if they had the UT Bio gun ? Or even the shockrifle combo , never mind bullets that bounce of walls ( flak ) . You'd have at least 3-5 patches worth of " balances" to make the weapon balanced . Just not worth the effort / time for doing so . I just do not think that weapons that are unique or special , would fare well in PS2. Unique weapons will do better in arena shooters and such , but certainly not in PS2 due to which audience they're trying to cater towards.

Or how about sometihng even simpler, just the mere thought of max weapons that are somewhat similar to the PS1 pounder, you've seen the replies of how OP such a weapon could be ?

As it is many people are already crying about game balance 24 x 7 with SHOTGUNS. Even after multiple balance passes many still have that issue with them . I understand that people do NOT like being instaglibbed but that leads to point 2 anyhow .

Besides, just look at the main forums, its just cries about OP this and OP that. I don't think the Devs would want to endure that constantly esp if a weapon is unique in how it performs, etc. Never mind any real discussion for tactics or such .


2) The TTK leaves little for " weapon variations" . Really a TTK of sub .7 second levels its nearly the same thing as an instaglib anyhow . Unless your playing with a really high speed connection with a gaming PC that'll have as much juice as the production servers that run this site, your not going notice a 0 TTK versus .7 TTK ( due to latency and/or normal reaction time) .

3) Its easier to just slap on visual mods, slight changes to a few stats then sell that weapon as a new different weapon . Easiest way for a decent return . Why endure rounds of balance passes and forum whining when you could just calm the masses down with a new weapon that's basically the same as carbine 102 but with a slightly higher ROF but lower dmg .

[TripsJay]

I have to agree on the weapon design front, for the TR at least, they all look the same, and whilst I understand some of it being that way, due to it being uniformed, standardised armies, some better weapon designs would be appreciated, even if it is slight tweaks, like offshoots, or even iron sights. for those who cannot wait, NS weapons appear to provide some interesting, or at least different designs.

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Omnimon

Few reasons why weapons are boring :

1 ) Weapons have to be boring because its easier to balance. Notice how anything that seems to be " OP " that defines an empire gets nerfed into the ground and/or replicated so that other factions could have that weapon ?

I know, but it's disheartening. PS1 had differences in the empire specific weapons. You couldn't compare one HA type weapon to another because each had different strengths and weaknesses that had to be used in different situations. Did they have issues balancing them? Yes, to be expected. But after they were balanced and players understood how/when to use them, they defined the empires abilities even more. It's one of the main things that made PS1 special and each empire play differently. The other thing that accomplished this was the empire specific vehicles, which there are more of in PS2. I do miss the buggies though.

[Omnimon]

Originally Posted by Crator

I know, but it's disheartening. PS1 had differences in the empire specific weapons. You couldn't compare one HA type weapon to another because each had different strengths and weaknesses that had to be used in different situations. Did they have issues balancing them? Yes, to be expected. But after they were balanced and players understood how/when to use them, they defined the empires abilities even more. It's one of the main things that made PS1 special and each empire play differently.

To be honest I'm in the camp where everything SHOULD be OP . That way you have your empire(s) defined FAR better then what we have today . Basically just adapt and let players FIND the answer instead of watering the weapons down; I've seen far too many forum whines about XYZ being OP or ABC is not fair . Never understood that but then again I've been playing arena shooters since the dawn of time .

I'd rather have the old Sauron cannon back, granted sure it was extremely powerful but there were ways to counter it. Ditto with NC Maxes and the TR Carv , etc. Frankly I thought those would help define empires. Would be one step, the next would be to actually design the weapons around what the empires strengths/ weaknesses ARE .

Example : VS = precision right ? That should be one of their primary empire traits so

VS Max weapon : Surpressor V2 , 0 COF , 0 recoil, low damage but 0 damage loss.

TR = ROF right ?

TR max weapon : Chaingun V2 , decent COF , decent recoil , low damage , low damage loss , but its a belt fed weapon . Don't have to reload , extremely high ROF , no spin up time.

NC = Damage

NC max weapon : Quadshotty V2 , extreme COF, extreme recoil , extreme damage, high damage loss, but bullets are " flak" and can bounce off walls multiple times or players. , etc.

That's what I thought PS2 would turn into, but instead its turned into :

Right now ARE there ANY difference between say how each empire's weapons handle ?

None. There's NO real difference how each empire's weapons handle. Same goes with many other weapons / classes, etc. Sure there are very , very tiny differences between each empire's weapon(s) but the differences are so minimal that only extremely well seasoned PS2 vets would notice, if even that .

[ketarakh]

Blacklight Retribution weapon system is by far the best system i ever saw in game.
I wish they could implement something similar in PS2.
But I guess it is one of those dreams that will never come true.

[VSderp]

Originally Posted by ketarakh

Blacklight Retribution weapon system is by far the best system i ever saw in game.
I wish they could implement something similar in PS2.
But I guess it is one of those dreams that will never come true.

eventhoe blacklight is only fun for about a week and p2w. i gotta agree they have a great weapon system alot of custom. if planetside 2 had the same system OH GOD.

[AThreatToYou]

When UT's TTK ranges from instant to >1.5s, I don't take the TTK being low as a very strong argument against unique weapons.

The balance argument I understand. Yet, PS1 ended up pretty well on the balance over the years. And I have seen games feature two entirely different teams that were balanced fairly quickly. Pushing different mechanics and visuals on a weapon, even if it's a NS weapon, would make me very happy.

[Omnimon]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

When UT's TTK ranges from instant to >1.5s, I don't take the TTK being low as a very strong argument against unique weapons.

The balance argument I understand. Yet, PS1 ended up pretty well on the balance over the years. And I have seen games feature two entirely different teams that were balanced fairly quickly. Pushing different mechanics and visuals on a weapon, even if it's a NS weapon, would make me very happy.

I just don't think its worth the effort to introduce weapons that are " different" outside of a carbine really . There are still MAJOR gripes over bullet based weapons , anything that offers something outside the relam of " damage within 0 - 1.5 seconds" will NOT be received well by the community at large. ( Basically a weapon who has utility outside of LOS ,bullet type damage )

A good example is :

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/c...g_on_shotguns/

They're still talking about shotguns that need to be changed again , and this is what .. 8 months into the game? If you read through the posts, people are going to start bringing up how SMG's are *might need a change* . After 2-3 huge balance passes for just that specific weapon type (shotguns) there is STILL an arguement as to wether or not if shotguns are balanced or not . These are ALL bullet based weapons that handle differently, but ALL kill under 1 second easily .

Might as well just make carbines and only carbines with slightly varying COF / Damage/ ROF , etc . Boring ? Yeah , but far easier to balance and it'll generate $$ easily as well .

I'm not saiyng that I'm against weapons with extremely different varying designs as to how they're used and such , heck I'm all for that as I've used tons of different UT mods for weapons,etc . But the game does not cater to that audeince , and that's how it is .

Personally I think PS1 guns had way more variation(s) then PS2 guns . Thumper, Acid nades , RR , any number of the core combat weapons, etc . Wish some of them were implemented but I'd doubt that its worth the effort to even bring those types of weapons into the game . Most of those weapons had at least something that was different then straight " LOS , bullet type dmg " .

[Crator]

^ I read that whole Reddit thread there. Seems one person is saying the shotgun is OP because it can kill faster at close range, throwing out the fact that you are gimped at medium to long range with the shotgun. Most everyone there disagrees with him btw. I disagree with him too.

[CodeyP]

That's one of the main reasons ppl (including me) buy NS guns, they look not the same as the ES ones and also got a neat sound. Gonna equip my whole chars with NS weapons, we already got a NS; LMG,Carbine,AR,RL,(Tanks), and soon an SMG!

[hashish]

I cannot agree more with OP and the first few posts with models designed for the punisher and stuff.. Wow that was planetside 1..

Unfortunately this new PS2 we have is extremely watered down remake Dont get me wrong, i still play and probably will always do.. But really and truely it is a characterless game..

Weapons and design in general is BOLLOX lets be honest.. Only like 25% of design mechanics is nice.. the rest is just lazy recycling, guess this is what we get for having a F2P game :/

There is no meta-game at all.. Still feels bland and quite pointless really.. Unless your in a big outfit which is co-ordinates and like to 'create their own metagame'.. Good fun and props to all outfit leaders that put so much effort into this, the game wouldnt be the same without you guys

I know many people say, oh we shouldnt compare this to PS1, and oh this is a different game.. I agree, however there are sooooooo many things you can learn from ps1 that made it such a success..

Few points of the top of my head:

1) The game had unreal music direction that really added so much character and impressiveness/emotion into the whole game. Weather it was travel music, or just walking around the sanctuary in third person mode, observing/soaking up the atmosphere which brings me to the next point..

2) Sanctuaries really added a level of strategic and RPG like safe zone for your whole faction. Also the HEART ship was soo cool, even though it was a simple instant action kinda thing, just the whole point of people waiting and loading up into it, then watching it leave to cross continents.. That was cool no doubt..

3) The MMOFPS that was PS1, was kind of a merger between RPG/FPS in an MMO setting. Correct me if im wrong, but i always really felt that PS1 had soo many RPG like mechanics, such as your inventory menu to stash items and actually create your OWN class, not some generic crap soldier that u add weapons to and make him look slightly better.. The slower pace was truly a good thing, although im not saying it cannot be achieved a faster pace too, it just needs to be done right and thing like Sancs can be used to change the whole BATTLE scenario into a situation where u are on your home world planning, gathering troops, and certing out your character..

4) The weapons.. The weapons in PS1 were, to put it lightly, EPICC !!! Every weapon was soo unique and required such a different play style, that it actually altered the way you thought and strategized against your enemies.. The level of creativity that went into ps1 is not even comparable to PS2's recycled crapp.. PS2 has no level of creativity in weapon design, they try to make things different but really its all the same shitt lol, weathers its pew pew, or takaka, there is really not much difference and design and usage.. Im really disappointed in how they have gone about it :/

All in all, PS2 is catered to the wide main stream audience to gain sales in their small crappy items, fair enough i do not blame them in anyway as they need to recoup some money since it is a F2P game, however it is unfortunate that this overides what the real fans would desire, and that is a much more long term solution.. If Ps2 remains so generic as it is now, it will eventually be forgotten, only thing people will remember is the MASSIVE battles, but what does that mean really when every other aspect is shite ey?

Anyways, i dont wanna make this into a rant or anything, just wish the devs try and develop the CHARACTER of the game itself through design, music and intuitiveness of the game world itself.. And stop wasting development time and money on bullshit

[Sunrock]

Weapons are boring? Its a tool FFS not a fashion accessory. Who cares how your hammer look? All you care is how well it can do what it's designed for.

[SturmovikDrakon]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Weapons are boring? Its a tool FFS not a fashion accessory. Who cares how your hammer look? All you care is how well it can do what it's designed for.

I'm not paying between 5 and 7$ for a stat change. It's probably hard for you to understand, but many people actually care for how their weapon looks and behaves more than how powerful it is. I don't always care for stats, I care about how bad-ass that weapon looks and sounds. It's a first person shooter, the look of the weapon is just as important as the stats.

If I spent that much, the weapon better look, sound and animate differently. Smedley compared their store prices to LoL, but LoL does all that and more for every new character. Every carbine, rifle and sniper rifle between TR and NC reloads the same. Their LMGs have some variations between the two Empires but again, between them there's still one animation.

Why not add a belt-fed LMG for TR? Why not a P90-like magazine? Why are there still no bull-pup designs for ARs? (apart from the NS SMG but it's such a nonsensical design I don't even care for it). Take a look at Battlefield and how every weapon behaves differently, even if the reloading mechanics are the same for all of them they at least TRY to spice up every gun with different hand movements and how the magazine is either ejected or inserted. A big contrast compared to SOE who simply extend an already overused animation and make it look extremely sluggish.

And unlike DICE, who are constricted to the near-future/modern setting, SOE has the luxury of a futuristic setting to go absolutely crazy on designs, at least for NC and VS (TR designs should continue to be based on conventional weaponry). But so far they have been extremely tame.

But in the end, we can all agree that Vanu got shafted the most in terms of gun aesthetics. A long reload animation is simply the guy looking for the battery a bit longer. Could at least make them crank it in manually.

/endrant


*Edit: After all that I remembered the crossbow concept, where the magazine is inserted directly inside of the weapon when it opens up (Like the Typhoon in Crysis 3). Now that's what I call crazy neat, although it's the kind of neat thing I expected out of Vanu designs, but sadly it goes to the NS.

[Dougnifico]

Personally, I want more aesthetic variety. Functionality is decent. Maybe you could have some more variety to put it on par with most modern shooters (screw it, give NC a version of the Carv and TR can have a Gauss SAW). My problem is that most weapons look the same. The SMG's were a great start. More effort should be put into going back and altering the old weapons. Also, new sound bites are a must.