Infinite revive isn't balanced for zerg/large scale play

[Figment]

I don't think it would help to use the heat thing unless the downtime was around half a minute. Or more. Why? Engineering tool is used for much longer periods of time on a single object, healing small amounts of health takes no time investment effort, nor does healing major wounds. (The (too) short ttk here has quite possibly been a design argument for short revive time). This is likely also one of the main reasons why they didn't do heating on the tool because the applied time is too short to ever become noticable unless the effect is drastic.

So say you want to keep this infinite revive - could it be adjusted?

Increasing revive time might expose medics to more danger, in comparison to "heat". "Heat" is better a minimum downtime ("recharge time"?) between revives and heals (feels arbitrary?). One might as well then just add a charge to the tool that works like ammo, but takes recharge times of a minute after it emptied.

That way you still enforce attrition and choices. Unless the group is big enough to have medics who fill in while others recharge or when they are logistically distant enough that that isn't hard. Hence I would prefer to just limit it like with med cannisters in ps1.

The annoying thing about the short ttk to me withrespct to these scenarios we are discussing is that one can hardly pick one's targets tactically anyway. By that time you are often already dead. If only you had a fraction of a second more...

[Wahooo]

Have it heat up faster?

I don't play medic much but I know in the large zergy battles the thing is constantly spamming and if it heated up like the engy tool if you are holding down the button even if you aren't healing it would make it a bit more tactical. Also in those scenarios it is kinda a mad dash for the different medics to rush and rez the downed teammates. Maybe some don't like that, but as someone who runs around un-squadded adn lone wolfing a lot I don't like the idea that random medics would save their revives for only their squad/platoon mates, or maybe pick and choose who you revive by ??? what ? if you have limited revives how do you choose who to revive? max first, then ? the guy that spent money on camo, he must be better right? ugh not that cloaker he wasn't helping this battle.

Canisters like in PS1 were great but I just feel they would need to be tied to a better inventory system. Honestly in a battle like we are talking about with massive numbers in a small space is anything but consumables not unlimited in this game? I've never run out of ammo when in a group. As a loan max or sniper or LA with a shottie but not in a big group where the medics and engies are clustered. IF this is the problem it isn't isolated to medics.

Hard for me to suggest something different when I simply fail to see this as a legitimate problem.

[Kirotan]

Haven't seen this suggested yet, so here goes:

- Keep infinite revive

- The medic gun now revives in 5 seconds, or 3 seconds at max rank.

- The medic must STAND STILL to revive someone. Any damage taken interrupts the process and it takes longer.

Result:

- Medics can't just circle strafe around a corpse for .5 seconds to dodge bullets out in the open while reviving a squad. The Medic now has to use discretion and consider the risks involved before trying to revive in an intense firefight. Since the medic is vulnerable, good teams/players will take the necessary steps to cover their medics, reinforcing and rewarding superior team play.

- Good teams and players will also take care not to die in areas where their medics may not be able to reach them, further rewarding good teamwork and coordination.

- A coordinated platoon can stand against a zerg with superior positioning and tactics. Zerglings will find revives hard to come by as teamwork oriented players will stop medics by setting up kill zones that prevent easy access by enemy medics. On the other hand, if one of their teammates goes down, cover fire is laid down and precious seconds are then given for an allied medic to perform a revive and retreat to cover.

- High level matches will involve positioning, flanking, cover fire, and all sorts of other maneuvers will dictate who wins; a flank by a LA or infiltrator is no longer, "Oh he killed 3 people. I'll just have them up in 5 seconds and it'll be like it will never happened." It will now be, "Oh they're getting flanked by an Infil! An engineer and 2 medics are down! The other team is moving in while they try to lay down cover fire but the remaining medics can't get them up in time and the front line has collapsed as they withdraw inside the building to guard the point. A MAX and two Heavy Assaults are outside the building and they won't be able to get a revive. They try to counter the push but there's too much sustained fire on the doorway and they can't afford to lose anyone else! The enemy now has MAX'es covering both doors! One more push and this match could be over!"

Sounds a lot more exciting to me, anyway.

[GS Ourous]

Idea:

Medic tools can only revive x number of times before having to resuply at a terminal/sunderer. x will increase with cert upgrades. Reviving a MAX subtracts twice as much from x as a standard infantry revive.

[KesTro]

Originally Posted by Wahooo

Fair enough. But attrition takes time and from what i've seen here and more on the official forums people are fairly impatient about progress.

Wait.. People still use the official forums? O.o

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by Kirotan

- The medic must STAND STILL to revive someone. Any damage taken interrupts the process and it takes longer.

Result:

- Medics can't just circle strafe around a corpse for .5 seconds to dodge bullets out in the open while reviving a squad. The Medic now has to use discretion and consider the risks involved before trying to revive in an intense firefight. Since the medic is vulnerable, good teams/players will take the necessary steps to cover their medics, reinforcing and rewarding superior team play.

As someone who plays more sniper than anything I support this.
Also as figgy pointed out hard to pick targets with such low TTK this makes it easier medics are the stationary ones


So the REAL issue as I understand it is, you've just killed two or three enemies and feel pretty good about yourself going 3 or 4 on 1 and taking most of them with you, only to see during the death screen a medic run up and start reviving and now you feel bad?
I don't see this as justification for a nerf.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by GS Ourous

Idea:

Medic tools can only revive x number of times before having to resuply at a terminal/sunderer. x will increase with cert upgrades. Reviving a MAX subtracts twice as much from x as a standard infantry revive.

People don't want to punish the medic, why not punish the dead player instead by having a player be revivable twice, then he must respawn, after which he can be revived twice again (with him possibly getting a revive back for every 60 seconds he remains alive)?

With this idea the medic is not himself punished, he can keep reviving others. The dead player is the one really being limited.

Originally Posted by Wahooo

So the REAL issue as I understand it is, you've just killed two or three enemies and feel pretty good about yourself going 3 or 4 on 1 and taking most of them with you, only to see during the death screen a medic run up and start reviving and now you feel bad?
I don't see this as justification for a nerf.

Under the 2 revive and you must respawn idea, 1 guy killing 3-4 guys but not their medic will not be affected...presumably if you kill the one guy who killed almost all of you, your group could stay alive for 60 seconds before he comes back?

[Kirotan]

Originally Posted by Wahooo

As someone who plays more sniper than anything I support this.
Also as figgy pointed out hard to pick targets with such low TTK this makes it easier medics are the stationary ones

That's a risk a medic might have to take. You could have a MAX stand over the medic. You can use smoke. You could just not revive someone who's running out in the open because hey, sometimes a medic can't just get to you if it's too dangerous.

edit wait what?