AGN: ReachCast Episode 47 CQ - Outfit Progression Rank Benefits....?

[DviddLeff]

This was my response:

Outfits are in dire need of an overhaul, with a lack of detail on the outfit panel that makes it unwieldy to manage an outfit from inside the game, often requiring external tools to do things well.

As it is there are few hard perks for being in an outfit - what does the average player get out of it? A tag in front of their name and an extra chat channel and that is all. Without specialisation outfits need a few things:

• Outfit historical statistic graphs on both a daily and hourly basis - members, kill death ratio, score per minute, time played, etc
• More information on specific members - join date, highest area of cert specialisation, kill death ratio, score per minute, time played, etc
• Option to show outfit members on the map
• Outfit officer chat channel
• Outfit events calender
• Outfit alliances

As for specialisation I would suggest the following:

Outfits would earn a fraction of their outfit members certification points (initial suggestion 1/100). These points could be spent on a number of different things including:

• More outfit ranks – there was an option to add more which was broken in an early build but the button has disappeared in a patch. I was hoping to add a few more ranks for different roles in my outfit.
• Outfit uniform - was mentioned many times before release but is not available yet. Would allow you to grant certain camouflage styles for use on your members vehicles, uniforms and weapons without them purchasing them themselves.
• Outfit divisions - place players in separate divisions for ease of organisation.
• Upload their own decal to be used by their members.
• Outfits able to claim a territory they are in to allow them to spawn there from across the continent later. Once bound to the outfits logo appears on banners around the territory. Once a territory is claimed the outfit gets more experience from fighting within that territory or those immediately adjacent to it, however the enemy will get more experience from capturing it due to the increased challenge. Ownership would cost initially and also cost hourly to maintain. Outfits can deploy the following enhancements and additions within the territory:
• New components:
• Resource extractor. Called in from orbit these smash into the ground and increase resource generation from that territory, increasing it by 100% per tick.
• Bunkers. Called in from orbit these bunkers provide defenders with a strong point where they can resupply and take cover from attackers.
• Sentry tower. Radar equipped this provides defenders with information on enemy movement and gives them a place to watch over the territory.
• Weapon emplacement. This allows engineers to call in base defence turrets that can then be customised for a particular role.
• Dropship pad. Additional dropship terminal and spawn pad.
• Vehicle tower. Additional air and ground vehicle terminals and spawn pads.
• Enhancements:
• Hardened generators. Generators take twice as long to overload.
• IFF shields. Gate shields do not allow enemy infantry to pass as well as vehicles.
• Turret ablative armour. Increases turret life by 50%.

[Crator]

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

As it is there are few hard perks for being in an outfit - what does the average player get out of it?

I'm in agreement that outfits shouldn't get more power. I actually have not thought too much about what they should get though. I really like all of your ideas!

Anyways, I wanted to take this time to mention something that really gets on my nerves about outfits.

-BillyBob has logged on.
-Durban has logged on.
-GittyGirl has logged off.
-BillyBob has logged off.

FFS, can we please have a way to turn this notification off?

[Grendalsh]

A Freelancer 'help wanted' terminal in the Warpgate could serve as a perk for both Outfits and solo players.
The current Squad Browser is focused on joining a squad, and can show some criteria about the available public squads..
The Freelancer board would show currently active Outfits (ie, have a platoon lead by an outfit member), and what type of activity they're engaged in (% of xp earned in last 2 hours by category: infantry, vehicle, air, base cap).
A Freelancer could search for an outfit that's currently engaged in a desired gamestyle, and file a request for a Platoon invite. This would grant an XP boost (5% per Outfit perk level) to the Freelancer. More importantly it would help non-outfitted players wanting to play with a platoon or unit find one to 'temp' with for a while that fit the Freelancer's playstyle, rather than hopping between public squads hoping for a compatible unit.
Outfits would unlock the ability to be listed on the Freelancer board, and the the level unlocked/certed would determine how many freelancers they could hire, and what the XP bonus would be.

[GeoGnome]

Outfit advancement should have some weight behind it. I'm sorry, but to be frank, if outfit advancement means cosmetics, it's completely worthless. Joining an outfit shouldn't give you a pretty hat, it should be something you want to do because it fits your play style. The one thing I would say okay to, on Cosmetics, is if the cosmetics could be unlocked to give certain items of vehicles an individual look... a' la the merc units from Starcraft 2.

It was mentioned on Reachcast, that outfits should have a system by which you don't get outfit bonuses until you have been with an outfit for a certain amount of time. This is a great idea. It could be tied to the rank system, so a level 1 newbie in the outfit holds the FNG rank, but once he's there for a week he gets the Private Rank, and can then use the outfit perks.

Things that should be added:
1.) Anything that boost the combat effectiveness of a unit, should be limited severely, and should only be things that already exist in the system. I would say rather than giving straight boosts to ROF or speed or what have you, it should translate to certing into something for the whole outfit. For example, if you invest 10,000 outfit certs, you can unlock Racer 2 as an option for loadout by default for every harasser pulled by a member of your outfit. This should be limited to individual vehicles, it should be quite expensive, and in order to get said benefits you should have a certain standing within the outfit. What this allows is for outfits to make a standardized loadout that benefits how they play the game, so that tactics they wish to use and do use often, can be available to even new members. This provides incentives for new players to join outfits, because they can get these advances early on and could potentially help them earlier to get into what style of play they wish to use. It also doesn't break balance, because your not adding additional bonuses, your adding things people could cert into anyway. This should not include weapons, only upgrades you can cert into (Does not include weapon attachments either)

2.) Cert into reduced prices/timers. Reduce the price of pulling a vehicle, or infantry resources, or for maintaining a vehicle, or for spawn times even. Again, this should be for individual assets (Not whole groups of things like, all grenades, all ground tanks, all aircraft, etc.). Again, this is similar to above, it allows for a standardized loadout, gives some identity to outfits, helps remain in the confines of the existing system. Also, outfits should be specialized, with cert lines to compliment each type of group.

3.) Vehicles and strikes. I'm going to be blunt, Orbital strikes, special vehicles, etc. These should belong to outfits. I know this is going to piss people off, but something like the Bastion, where you can pull this mobile base that is customized by the outfit to be a logistics center with everything they need, or cert into upgrading an orbital strike platform... This should be in the hands of the outfits. These things should also be Ridiculously expensive. See below for why: Outfits should be the ones at the forefront, the more organized and the ones using their abilities.

There is something here though that needs to be said, outfits should not generate Certs based on kills. At all. No offense to some groups, but your ability to kill people should not factor into your being granted greater tools. Base captures, defenses, assists, missions for outside groups, destroying primary and secondary objectives... these things should reward the outfits with points that can be put towards the kinds of great bonuses I'm mentioning above. Why? Because an outfit that farms their brains out isn't necessarily helping anything. This also encourages outfits to focus more on advancing the fight, than just sitting somewhere and farming the local zergfit. It also means that a small outfit that pushes points and works hard on objectives can be rated just as highly as an outfit that has 500 members... because those 500 member groups, while often possessing more people, will almost never be able to coordinate things as well.

Addition: I would say that with time straight BONUSES could be added to outfit's, for items that are used frequently by that outfit. So, if your outfit has certed Racer 3, Composite 4, and prox radar for all harassers as a choice for outfit members, and the outfit has logged 10,000 hours with harassers, and there have been cosmetic changes for each outfit pulled harasser (Think, the merc units from Starcraft 2)... THEN you can start looking into minor buffs to something. This should be dependent on more than just the ability of the outfit to earn certs, it should be after the outfit has shown a commitment to that kind of vehicle or combat style. Why? Because if in the future of PS2, there are outfits that are entirely about Air Combat, they have 45 BR 100 pilots, they ONLY fly air sorties, they have 20 combined hours logged in vehicles that aren't esfs... I'm sorry, but that group should get recognition.

Oh, and one other thing to balance all of this out: After a while, your outfit should be locked in a path. If you choose to make Racer 3 a default unlock for all outfit members ranking above FNG... Well, then you should NOT be able to do the same for Prowlers. You should also be severely limited in what you can do to other types of vehicles or infantry. This means that outfits will be picking and choosing things that compliment their playstyle, without becoming wildly overpowered, because they can effectively with time level Everything. No, if one group wishes to max out a few things on the harasser, after a while they should be able to apply No bonuses to any other vehicle.

Secondary Addition: Oh yes, and anything that can be gotten by outfits, tradeoff for getting special things? I'm sorry, but it requires a group to operate. When and if the Bastion is introduced, honestly it should be 3-D FTL in order to get the dang thing to work. 1 guy may be able to drive it, but there should be engineers running around the engine room, nano-tooling the terminals to get things operational. So teams need to communicate in their fancy toys. Other options would be, a command uplink station, and a spotter for orbital strikes; crews necessary to carry out artillery strikes; laser spotters for airstrikes, with airstrike bombs (Wise AOE, low damage, requiring multiple ones to get kills); crewed ground vehicles, that require a second seater, etc.

[Grendalsh]

Cosmetics can serve two functions depending on how they are acquired.
If the are purchased or unlocked, they have no value outside of 'bling'. Vehicle Lumifiber falls in this category - while it's visually cool, all it really shows is that a player was willing to spend money on the game. Likewise, cosmetics that can be 'purchased' with outfit certs also only show that your outfit is large enough, or has played long enough, to afford that item.

If, however, they can only be acquired through teamwork and effectiveness, then they carry visible value to other players. Consider end-game raid or high-ranked PVP gear in MMOs - these are desired for their aesthetics and stats, but equally for the status they imply. They show that you are part of a successful raiding guild or PVP team, and imply badassery. This is a valuable component of Psychological warfare - displays that your outfit excels at what you do, and your opponent should fear you.

As an example, an outfit that focuses on tank combat could unlock things like whip antennas, equipage (tools and cargo lashed to the hull), even custom muzzle flashes and banners - visual perks that only tank specialized outfits can have.

While these would be the 'trophy' rewards, the real rewards would be improved logistics relevant to the unit's preferred playstyle.. So the same hypothetical tanker outfit could unlock reduced vehicle timers or resource costs, or even unlockable cert trees for outfit members - improvements to chassis performance, additional armor options, larger ammo capacity, new fire modes (think ZOE for tanks), or even dedicated driver/gunner for MBT. Ideally there should be certs that open new specialty playstyles that would take an organized outfit to effectively utilize, relying on effective teamwork. Consider repair or ammo lightning variants that can blend into and keep pace with an armor column. they provide no new mechanical benefit over Repair/Ammo Sundies, but by blending in with an armor column, they modify gameplay.

Howver, there should NOT be anything that improves a vehicle's DPS (ie no improved ROF). To keep a competitive MLG-friendly environment, there can't be anything that skews effectiveness to stats over skill.

In regards to using a Cert system for Outfit specialization, there are two primary issues.

First, it locks an outfit into a specialization. Considering the cry for player re-cert options, I can imagine the same problems with outfits wanting to change their certs..

Second, a large outfit that engages in multiple roles can spend certs on a specialization that doesn't actually reflect the outfit's activities. This would detract from the psychological warfare value of these visual perks to outfits that actually do specialize in that role. For instance, an outfit that spread itself across numerous roles could specialize into tanks. An outfit with Tanker specialty bling should be correctly perceived as being a badass tanker outfit, not actually be a zerg outfit whose founder spent outfit certs on tank combat specialty so he can bling out his Prowler.

By tying an outfit's progression to what combat roles it actually engages in, and how effective the outfit is at that role, the cosmetics will carry meaning and value and the unlocks will be relevant to the outfit's activities. By having the specializations tied to the outfit's activity, the outfit is free to explore specializing in other combat roles, slowly losing their previous specialty ranking and perks as they build ranking and earn perks in their new role.
In this way, large unfocused outfits will have difficulty earning high-ranking specialty perks, while smaller focused units can build a visible 'reputation'. Likewise, units would actually have to continue being active in that role to maintain those perks.. a Carrot and stick to continue playing to keep desired perks, and again insuring that cosmetics mean 'this outfit is both good at, and active in, this role'.

[Rahabib]

There are three levels of rewards that could happen:

1) cosmetic - this is the least controversial reward an outfit can get. Access to skins, helmets, etc. and even to exclusive ones would be a great benefit - but only to those who care about that stuff. Because these do not increase anyone's ability to play the game in anyway, its completely do-able and I would be fine with it. However, as stated, the rewards would only be icing on the cake for people who already want to be in outfits and probably would not push people to joining outfits - which isnt a bad thing either. Nobody wants to feel compelled to be in an outfit (myself included).

2) logistical - these rewards allow outfits themselves to operate more efficiently but does not enhance actual combat skills to create an unfair advantage. These would include things like additional ranks, drawing on the maps, ability to customize squads greater for things like fire teams, access to command chats (which I think would be a great idea to limit further), etc. Since these do not enhance an individuals abilities or skills, I would be fine with these as well. However, with more ability to communicate etc. it will make outfits more effective, but only a strategic level, which may compel some people to join an outfit so that they can benefit from greater communication and participate on a strategic level where as they could not before.

3) combat - combat rewards are the most controversial, and I do not support them at all. This includes XP bonuses, spawn preference (outfit bases), resource bonuses, anything increasing skills or abilities that gives an advantage to an individual in game over another based solely on the fact that someone is in an outfit, and that goes for anything related to implants etc. If something like this were to be put in place, you ruin the competitive atmosphere of the game (more than it already is) and compels people to join outfits. Some people say, this is the best way to support outfits to get more members, however this may have the opposite effect. In other games there are guild rewards, however, these mainly benefit the zerg guilds, and hurt upstart guilds greatly. Its hard to recruit for a new outfit if players want access to rewards "now" and believe it or not, this will happen. Also, the quality of individuals may be diminished as you will then have players join solely for the combat reward and not to participate in your jr. military pretend op night.

There are some exceptions I would be OK with, as long as its handled with care. If orbital strikes were put in the game, it needs to be controlled so that not everyone has it - including every outfit. Meaning, an outfit can unlock a strike and use it, but it would have to be super rare to see, and not be an automatic "win" button. We should see it once a week, not once every few hours (depending on its effectiveness). Sunderers have enough to deal with without having an automatic destruction just waiting for them. without warning. I guess we would have to see.

So, taking combat rewards out, I am ok with the first two. I think the easiest way to handle progression is, that every XP gained from members while part of the outfit also goes toward the outfit experience. Pub joins do not count toward the outfit progression but can benefit from the already unlocked items like customized squads etc. from the Platoon leader. This may not be fair to squad leaders or people who want to be platoon leader but dont have many unlocks yet, but the pub players in the squad probably wont care much about that stuff anyway, its more of a benefit for closed op squads and platoons.