This just makes NO sense. - Page 2

Qwan · 2013-08-23, 07:04 AM

IMO I believe that performance is going to make or break this game. Like Ive said in previouse comments, there is no sence in making 8 continents worth of stuff if it doesnt work properly, and plus its easier for devs to find problems when there isnt alot of code to comb threw. I believe that the designers got there technique down pact, its just time to make it so that when they do add that new weapon, continent, or vehicle that it works properly, and that all bugs associated with it can easily be fixed or had been fixed prior to them adding any new content. Though I havent played PS2 in weeks (minus my nightly log in for certs) from what I can see from forums and stuff the game is coming along pretty good.

kubacheski · 2013-08-23, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

What you are suggesting is silly but i cant actually prove it wrong.

But it doesnt really matter as artists are only a portion of the development crew that is helping to optimize the gamer performance.

I'm confident that you can't prove it wrong because it's a true statement. I mentioned in another post, drop a pebble in pool of water and see what happens. Yes you think that the artists is only small part as the engine is rendering the images on your screen, but the definitions contained in every model may need to change to interface with the changes made to the engine. Hell, due to the complexity of the graphics, it would be the absolute first place I'd start.

And each and every dev will be doing 3 things - testing, testing, testing. Then you have to have analysis of the data collected from these tests.

Is it performing better?
Did some areas actually get worse?
Is the extra check for content_xxx in the logic worth having right now as content_xxx is not implemented yet?
Yea it's cool to track how many shots fired, but do we need to also track the vector of the bullet/ray so we can save a slight amount of traffic?

There's so much in a game this size that there's a million little things to slice off of it. Someone just has to decide which 10,000 things of the million have got to go in the name of performance. (Well actually in performance improvement so that we can have better player retention, so that we can make more money, but you get the point.) And that's Smed and team.

So let them get to work. No amount of us complaining and asking questions will change their path. You can say you'll withhold your sub money and not buy that giraffe camo, but they're a path they hope will have you buying again and in the end you'll probably be thankful that they did the optimization and throw even more money at them to "reward" them for a slightly bettter gameplay.

P.S. If they're optimizing the engine, then it's complete bullshit that it wont affect PS2 on PS4 and EQ:Next. Hell it may be that they've got to upgrade the ForgeLight that currently runs the PC version due to finding some massive bug in implementing one of the other 2 games running ForgeLight.

Slackermagee · 2013-08-23, 11:51 AM

Things I (as a non comp sci person) can envision non-code monkeys doing:

Better render occlusion for things like tunnels
Removing pieces of models that render beneath the ground/removing unseen geometries
Going back to older models and reducing the polygon count without noticeable changes in shape, texture, etc etc
Making a re-modeling pass on cosmetics such that the polygon count is reduced/render stress is reduced

I imagine for the actual coding portion of the team, multi-threading is The Big Thing and not something that they're doing without some back up from the PS4-edition dev team (if those are separate) or some expert help from the other teams.

I think Smedley has it all on the right track now. Imagine how bad this would have been if two months from now we discovered that we were actually working with the PGI PR team doppelgangers.

Ghoest9 · 2013-08-23, 03:48 PM

All you kool-aid drinkers remember this.

In the next game you play when it has terrible stability/performance issues early on and the devs say they have everyone working on it which can help.

Player are going to complain if any new art is added. When the devs say those people cant help - you better call them liars.

ChipMHazard · 2013-08-23, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

All you kool-aid drinkers remember this.

Ah, ok. So because some people don't agree with your stated "fact" that makes them blind and naive? Rather presumptuous, no?
Don't want to trust what Mr. Smedley wrote? That's fine. Can't blame you since I seldom fully believe any PR statement.

Oh and I probably wouldn't go into a name calling contest here.

Ghoest9 · 2013-08-23, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Ah, ok. So because some people don't agree with your stated "fact" that makes them blind and naive? Rather presumptuous, no?
Don't want to trust what Mr. Smedley wrote? That's fine. Can't blame you since I seldom fully believe any PR statement.

Oh and I probably wouldn't go into a name calling contest here.

NO.
SOE is claiming basically the opposite of what every previous game developer(including SOE in the past) has always claimed.

Simply believing them seems naive to me.

Taramafor · 2013-08-23, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Ah, ok. So because some people don't agree with your stated "fact" that makes them blind and naive? Rather presumptuous, no?
Don't want to trust what Mr. Smedley wrote? That's fine. Can't blame you since I seldom fully believe any PR statement.

Oh and I probably wouldn't go into a name calling contest here.

Now now, back in your cupboard Chip. Let's try to remember we're better then ignorance and not allow it to convert us into name calling trolls as it wants to do.

That being said, I would like to see a MMO game with more realistic movement (lack of prone anyone?) and cover being used. But that's completely different from graphic performance.

Speaking of which, you can see THROUGH some of those icicles on Esamir when looking under them. Which might be an attempt to cut down on performance that hasn't gone unnoticed? If it went unnoticed it wouldn't be a big deal but it's kind of hard not to. Quite easily fixed by moving those icicles down into the snow a bit more though I think.

Now where was I? Oh, right! Are bugs still going to be ironed out? Because I've had to put up with a very annoying default, deployable turret bug where I hit the shield from my own side for awhile now.

ChipMHazard · 2013-08-23, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

NO.
SOE is claiming basically the opposite of what every previous game developer(including SOE in the past) has always claimed.

Simply believing them seems naive to me.

Well, SOE is (Apparently) just claiming that they will prioritize optimization, other (non-disclosed) "stuff" and new content will have to wait, which seems reasonable to me.
This "I've asked that we cease work on everything else until we get the performance situation significantly improved." doesn't seem reasonable as it's nonsense. Problems will come up and have to be fixed, not to mention the currrent bugs. They obviously will not stop making patches because of this change in priorities, they can't be that idiotic. Heck, we know that the art team is making Player Studio items ready for implementation, so it's not allwork.
I have no idea what he meant when he wrote that, but it seems like an overly dramatic reaction to focus on just that since we don't know what exactly he meant. I do hope that it's just very poor choice of words on his part.

Who has simply believed that statement? Seems like people don't believe that part, so I still don't see why you referred to people as being kool-aid drinkers (For those who don't know it's a derogative term that is uncalled for in this situation and not fair to your fellow posters) because they don't agree with your sentiment.

Rolfski · 2013-08-23, 07:33 PM

Call me naive but I don't think there's any conspiracy going on here. The reason for it? It's bad for business.
SOE's lack of transparent communication is basically what screwed up the Star Wars Galaxies franchise. They recently admitted this in this interesting read, where they kinda stated that good community management is key in protecting devs against agressive players.

So I'm inclined to believe Smed because being open is part of their strategy. They already announced to bring this open PS 2 development model to the next level with the EQN development process.

Ertwin · 2013-08-24, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Well, SOE is (Apparently) just claiming that they will prioritize optimization, other (non-disclosed) "stuff" and new content will have to wait, which seems reasonable to me.
This "I've asked that we cease work on everything else until we get the performance situation significantly improved." doesn't seem reasonable as it's nonsense. Problems will come up and have to be fixed, not to mention the currrent bugs. They obviously will not stop making patches because of this change in priorities, they can't be that idiotic. Heck, we know that the art team is making Player Studio items ready for implementation, so it's not allwork.
I have no idea what he meant when he wrote that, but it seems like an overly dramatic reaction to focus on just that since we don't know what exactly he meant. I do hope that it's just very poor choice of words on his part.

It likely means that due to the optimization priority, nothing else will get implemented until the optimization is done. If they keep adding stuff while optimizing, it'll screw with the optimization.