Quality of Life: Liberator

Obstruction · 2013-08-25, 11:31 AM

updated 27th Jan, 2014 in response to Liberator Update

after spending a lot of time as pilot in a dedicated Liberator crew, here is a list of quality of life issues. also included are a few suggestions about areas where minor positive changes could be made. the intent is not to roll back the nerfs that were necessary in the months following launch, but simply to keep the Liberator relevant and competitive going forward.

first the list in short form, then a paragraph detailing each point.

check. the altimeter should be present in third person and list both AMSL and AGL values.
check. fix the landing gear bug, or give us a manual keybinding to raise them.
level one flares should be standard on all aircraft; increased functionality should be a utility slot choice
the Liberator needs a moderate hit point increase to remain relevant in large scale conflict. in retrospect, i think a resist shield ability is a better solution. 5-8 seconds duration, 45s cooldown. lets you do passes over the usual 25 guys with basilisks and burster MAXs without instantly disintegrating in the lag.
gunner ammunition should be visible to the pilot in both first and third person HUD.
XP and statistics should be shared among the crew. assists on the same target could be handicapped to limit exploitation.
increase weapon variety, and/or configurations.
check. balance drop pods; they are used as a first order weapon.
collisions should be standardized.
nerf the air hammer against vehicles, it is out of balance with faction equivalent loadouts.
check. differentiate projectile impact sounds; some have no sound, many share the same sound.

The Altimeter - recently this was changed to reflect altitude to ground level, which while helpful in terms of judging range to targets and threats, does not help coordination with other air units, and creates confusion about the flight ceiling. it's my understanding that AMSL is being added back, which is good. while you're at it, add both numbers to the third person display and the gunner displays.
The Landing Gear Bug - this has been in the game since launch, maybe before. you know the one. you take off, and the gunner's view is obstructed by landing gear that remain in the down position even though they are not visible to the pilot in third person. they are only fixed by landing and taking off again, a process that is time consuming and dangerous in the field, and which must sometimes be repeated. as pilot, if you don't have a communicative gunner, you may not even know they have a problem. either fix the bug, or give us a workaround in the form of a manual landing gear keybinding.
Flares - i understand that the flares/lock-on system is currently under revision. that said, flares are extremely important, but often not taken due to the constraints of the utility slot selection. what is now level one flare should be standard on all aircraft, possibly changed to an ammunition system, and additional or improved functionality should be the choice that is weighed against other Utility options at loadout.
Hit Points - in order to participate in the larger scale battles that the lattice is ensuring are the norm, and keep pace with increases to weapon damage from both ESFs weapons and basilisk ground vehicle weapons, Liberator hit points could be reasonably increased. like the MBT hit point increase it could be offset with a damage type for some things, like flak and G2A lock-ons to keep the TTK about the same for the intended deterrents and counters, while giving the Liberator a few more seconds breathing room against swarms of uncerted basilisks, for example. i won't pin an exact number on this recommendation; some have suggested as much as 35%, though it may be wiser to start smaller and ratchet it up as it plays out on Live.
Gunner Ammunition Counter - secondary and tertiary weapon ammo should be displayed to the pilot, first person and third. at the risk of cluttering the screen with indicators and numbers, it would be extremely helpful for pilots to not constantly need to ask for gunner ammo count, nor for gunners to constantly need to report. this is vital strategic information when planning attack and withdrawal, and sometimes in the case of pick-up gunners, not communicated effectively at all.
Shared XP and Stats - what happened to this after launch? the experience and statistic distribution between pilot and gunners affects playstyle choices in many ways, and creates a situation where the almost totally ineffective tail position is completely undesirable. all crew members should share equally in score and stats, though double-dipping on assists could then be nerfed. in the case of statistics, it's mostly an aesthetic change, but many dedicated Liberator pilots suffer all of the deaths and score only a percentage of the kills, causing recorded stats to be even less accurate or meaningful than they already are.
Increase Weapon Variety - more options, or more positions in loadout weaponry. i won't make suggestions other than to point out that the tail position is almost entirely useless and completely undesirable. i've heard from more than one gunner that having a slow reload lock-on option would increase the efficacy of the tail 100% in the situations when it is presented a target. as it stands, the walker is the only real option, and even that has limited tactical value in it's current state. other than that, let's just say there is a lot of room for creativity and there is no shortage of excellent ideas from the playerbase.
Drop Pod Balance - squad deploy and squad beacons are often used as first order weapons against a Liberator even before changing to weapons that are intended specifically for destroying or deterring air units. as it stands, a drop pod costs no resource, 15-30 seconds of infantry downtime for 1 unit, and deals more direct damage than two AP shells, six lock on missles, or four clips of burster flak. in addition, the threat from drop pods comes with almost no warning. in order to bring this into balance, the damage dealt should be reduced to the equivalent of one AP shell, killing a Liberator if it is below 50% but only severely damaging or crippling one that is full. there should be an extended audio cue that drop pods are falling, on par with the amount of time you have to hear an approaching ESF or the whistle of an AP round. something around one second rather than .1 seconds, as it is currently.
Terrain and Object Collisions - collision damage should be standardized with regard to ESFs (looking at you, scythes,) debris, and terrain and facility objects. it is just impossible to know what can be bumped and what cannot, and with what part of the vehicle. currently some parts of the vehicle can be hit very hard with no effect, while others seem to be "critical hit zones" that lead to losing full hit points at the slightest touch. this is especially apparent in head on collisions with scythes, who can seem to magically destroy a full health Liberator with 10-15 times it's mass.
The Air Hammer - at the risk of upsetting certain NC ESF pilots it should be pointed out yet again that despite the last nerf to damage on this weapon, it is absurdly effective against vehicles. VS and TR faction equivalent anti-infantry weapons are appropriately balanced, but this anomaly persists. an anti-infantry shotgun should not down a gunship in two clips. this needs to be brought into balance, preferably before the high damage wing mount loadouts come into play. also, don't get me wrong, i like the air hammer, it's really fun to use and i'm not hating on people who use a thing that is effective. but it needs to be non-optimal with regard to vehicles, as the "effective range" limitation is not limiting enough considering the speed and maneuverability of the ESF and it's secondary weapon options. the previous damage nerf was not successful, and could be rolled back in lieu of an appropriate damage-type adjustment.
More Distinctive Audio Cues - not every weapon has a distinct sound when ringing against the hull, and this can be deceptively dangerous. i won't go into the list of what sounds like what, but the sound designers know what i'm talking about. you all know that there are some projectile collision sounds that you use for several very different classes of weapon, while some have no sound cue at all. if the pilot is unable to hear or visually confirm the vehicle type due to range or field of view, the only data they have to rely on are the sound of the impact and the damage dealt per shot. please review the sound files and make each one distinct where they overlap.

a lot of great changes have come into effect since this post, so i've updated the list to reflect that. some recent balance changes and performance updates have also come and gone that have affected Quality of Life not only for Liberators, but also for ESFs, in both the A2A and G2A meta.

27th Jan, 2014. - ed.

KarrdeBRBU · 2013-08-25, 12:33 PM

I can agree with most points aside from podding. It becomes significantly harder to pod libs if they're moving constantly and not hover spamming.

snafus · 2013-08-25, 12:51 PM

I will state the same thing I have said for months when it comes to Liberators. They need a significant increase to resistance of ground based fire, somewhere near 30-40%. But at the same time keep them just as vulnerable or more so to ESF to give the ESF a true target to hunt. It is simply laughable how Libs can't participate in large engagements without being nearly instapoofed by the multitudes of AA fire.

LeilaniRock · 2013-08-25, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Obstruction

after spending a lot of time as pilot in a dedicated Liberator crew, here is a list of quality of life issues. also included are a few suggestions about areas where minor positive changes could be made. the intent is not to roll back the nerfs that were necessary in the months following launch, but simply to keep the Liberator relevant and competitive going forward.

first the list in short form, then a paragraph detailing each point.

The Altimeter - recently this was changed to reflect altitude to ground level, which while helpful in terms of judging range to targets and threats, does not help coordination with other air units, and creates confusion about the flight ceiling. it's my understanding that AMSL is being added back, which is good. while you're at it, add both numbers to the third person display and the gunner displays.
The Landing Gear Bug - this has been in the game since launch, maybe before. you know the one. you take off, and the gunner's view is obstructed by landing gear that remain in the down position even though they are not visible to the pilot in third person. they are only fixed by landing and taking off again, a process that is time consuming and dangerous in the field, and which must sometimes be repeated. as pilot, if you don't have a communicative gunner, you may not even know they have a problem. either fix the bug, or give us a workaround in the form of a manual landing gear keybinding.
Flares - i understand that the flares/lock-on system is currently under revision. that said, flares are extremely important, but often not taken due to the constraints of the utility slot selection. what is now level one flare should be standard on all aircraft, possibly changed to an ammunition system, and additional or improved functionality should be the choice that is weighed against other Utility options at loadout.
Hit Points - in order to participate in the larger scale battles that the lattice is ensuring are the norm, and keep pace with increases to weapon damage from both ESFs weapons and basilisk ground vehicle weapons, Liberator hit points could be reasonably increased. like the MBT hit point increase it could be offset with a damage type for some things, like flak and G2A lock-ons to keep the TTK about the same for the intended deterrents and counters, while giving the Liberator a few more seconds breathing room against swarms of uncerted basilisks, for example. i won't pin an exact number on this recommendation; some have suggested as much as 35%, though it may be wiser to start smaller and ratchet it up as it plays out on Live.
Gunner Ammunition Counter - secondary and tertiary weapon ammo should be displayed to the pilot, first person and third. at the risk of cluttering the screen with indicators and numbers, it would be extremely helpful for pilots to not constantly need to ask for gunner ammo count, nor for gunners to constantly need to report. this is vital strategic information when planning attack and withdrawal, and sometimes in the case of pick-up gunners, not communicated effectively at all.
Shared XP and Stats - what happened to this after launch? the experience and statistic distribution between pilot and gunners affects playstyle choices in many ways, and creates a situation where the almost totally ineffective tail position is completely undesirable. all crew members should share equally in score and stats, though double-dipping on assists could then be nerfed. in the case of statistics, it's mostly an aesthetic change, but many dedicated Liberator pilots suffer all of the deaths and score only a percentage of the kills, causing recorded stats to be even less accurate or meaningful than they already are.
Increase Weapon Variety - more options, or more positions in loadout weaponry. i won't make suggestions other than to point out that the tail position is almost entirely useless and completely undesirable. i've heard from more than one gunner that having a slow reload lock-on option would increase the efficacy of the tail 100% in the situations when it is presented a target. as it stands, the walker is the only real option, and even that has limited tactical value in it's current state. other than that, let's just say there is a lot of room for creativity and there is no shortage of excellent ideas from the playerbase.
Drop Pod Balance - squad deploy and squad beacons are often used as first order weapons against a Liberator even before changing to weapons that are intended specifically for destroying or deterring air units. as it stands, a drop pod costs no resource, 15-30 seconds of infantry downtime for 1 unit, and deals more direct damage than two AP shells, six lock on missles, or four clips of burster flak. in addition, the threat from drop pods comes with almost no warning. in order to bring this into balance, the damage dealt should be reduced to the equivalent of one AP shell, killing a Liberator if it is below 50% but only severely damaging or crippling one that is full. there should be an extended audio cue that drop pods are falling, on par with the amount of time you have to hear an approaching ESF or the whistle of an AP round. something around one second rather than .1 seconds, as it is currently.
Terrain and Object Collisions - collision damage should be standardized with regard to ESFs (looking at you, scythes,) debris, and terrain and facility objects. it is just impossible to know what can be bumped and what cannot, and with what part of the vehicle. currently some parts of the vehicle can be hit very hard with no effect, while others seem to be "critical hit zones" that lead to losing full hit points at the slightest touch. this is especially apparent in head on collisions with scythes, who can seem to magically destroy a full health Liberator with 10-15 times it's mass.
The Air Hammer - at the risk of upsetting certain NC ESF pilots it should be pointed out yet again that despite the last nerf to damage on this weapon, it is absurdly effective against vehicles. VS and TR faction equivalent anti-infantry weapons are appropriately balanced, but this anomaly persists. an anti-infantry shotgun should not down a gunship in two clips. this needs to be brought into balance, preferably before the high damage wing mount loadouts come into play. also, don't get me wrong, i like the air hammer, it's really fun to use and i'm not hating on people who use a thing that is effective. but it needs to be non-optimal with regard to vehicles, as the "effective range" limitation is not limiting enough considering the speed and maneuverability of the ESF and it's secondary weapon options. the previous damage nerf was not successful, and could be rolled back in lieu of an appropriate damage-type adjustment.
More Distinctive Audio Cues - not every weapon has a distinct sound when ringing against the hull, and this can be deceptively dangerous. i won't go into the list of what sounds like what, but the sound designers know what i'm talking about. you all know that there are some projectile collision sounds that you use for several very different classes of weapon, while some have no sound cue at all. if the pilot is unable to hear or visually confirm the vehicle type due to range or field of view, the only data they have to rely on are the sound of the impact and the damage dealt per shot. please review the sound files and make each one distinct where they overlap.

Nailde on the head!
+1 to you Sir!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edfishy · 2013-08-25, 02:51 PM

Agreed on all fronts, nothing much more to say.

Also if something can be done to enable flipped over Liberators to re-align themselves in sanc it'd be nice.

Edit:

In addition, if the pilot could get a full 3D model representation of the tail gun that generally shows which direction the weapon is aiming it'd help. A lot of times my gunner will say, "There's a guy dead ahead", and then stumble trying to call out the cardinal direction. Or maybe allow the gunner to "ping" that direction or some such.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-08-25, 03:01 PM

Im agreeable to about everything you said. The gauges definitely need a fix so you get both altitudes.

I dont agree at all with changing drop pod damage. I think if you are hover bombing a base you deserve to be drop podded to death.

I do agree that libs need a health buff. But we definitely dont need to turn libs into flying tanks by nerfing other types of damage. So what i propose is a buff to liberator health but making libs susceptible to small arms fire. At least a little bit.

Obstruction · 2013-08-25, 04:00 PM

I dont agree at all with changing drop pod damage. I think if you are hover bombing a base you deserve to be drop podded to death.

I do agree that libs need a health buff. But we definitely dont need to turn libs into flying tanks by nerfing other types of damage.

while i respect the position of the arguments presented, allow me to be a bit more clear.

on drop pods, what i'm seeing is that they are being used as a way to go around the resource system and avoid pulling a max unit. if a Liberator is truly hovering over a base and not moving around, then they will be in as much danger of dumbfire rockets as drop pods, among other things. what this proposal seeks is not at all a giveaway to unskilled Liberators, but a disincentive to abuse the drop spawn as a "best choice." either way the most important part of that point is the improvement of the audio cue.

second, where i said:

like the MBT hit point increase it could be offset with a damage type for some things, like flak and G2A lock-ons to keep the TTK about the same for the intended deterrents and counters, while giving the Liberator a few more seconds breathing room against swarms of uncerted basilisks, for example.

i think maybe we misunderstand each other. the MBT gained hitpoints, but certain types of weapons which are intended as deterrents and counters were given a damage type modifier to retain near the original TTK. this type of adjustment was also done with regard to the Fury, to retain the ratio of damage to vehicles while bringing the unmodified damage to soft targets into balance with comparable weapons.

what i propose here is that some types of weapons, those intended as countermeasures and deterrents to the Liberator, should get a similar pass if the Liberator gains a hit point boost.

that is to say as much as burster flak and shoulder fires are the bane of my daily war on Auraxis, i don't think they deserve an indirect nerf. my proposal intends to retain the effective TTK of these countermeasures, while giving the Liberator team more hit points to sustain damage from generalized weapons during an air strike.

last, with regard to small arms fire, while i disagree that all small arms should deal damage (even a little) to a Liberator, i have for a long time said that the Heavy Assault class should have access to a primary LMG (or LMG cert upgrade) that sacrifices core AI stats (a little COF, a little ROF, a little reload) for the ability to damage heavy vehicles.

thanks each of you for the feedback and reasoned argument. if there is something else i've been unclear about i will try to respond again later on in the thread as i check back for your further additions to the conversation.

NewSith · 2013-08-25, 04:05 PM

I only disagree with the air hammer part. The weapon may be supposed to be Anti-Infantry, but the truth is - it's useless against troops.

So it should just be rebalanced, not nerfed.

AThreatToYou · 2013-08-25, 04:37 PM

The Air Hammer - at the risk of upsetting certain NC ESF pilots it should be pointed out yet again that despite the last nerf to damage on this weapon, it is absurdly effective against vehicles. VS and TR faction equivalent anti-infantry weapons are appropriately balanced, but this anomaly persists. an anti-infantry shotgun should not down a gunship in two clips. this needs to be brought into balance, preferably before the high damage wing mount loadouts come into play. also, don't get me wrong, i like the air hammer, it's really fun to use and i'm not hating on people who use a thing that is effective. but it needs to be non-optimal with regard to vehicles, as the "effective range" limitation is not limiting enough considering the speed and maneuverability of the ESF and it's secondary weapon options. the previous damage nerf was not successful, and could be rolled back in lieu of an appropriate damage-type adjustment.

If you make it an AI weapon, then it becomes useless without a complete redesign...

Obstruction · 2013-08-25, 06:09 PM

it's not the first useless NC shotgun joke weapon. it's just the only one that found a niche role because the explosive shells explode on vehicles when they should probably only explode on troops.

i put the caveat at the start of the paragraph, and another at the bottom. i hear you, it's not my fault that it's persisted long enough for some people to get attached to it.

i'm just calling it how i see it after several hundred hours of play across three factions.

redesign, nerf, rebalance, hell - give NC a blue banshee or PPA. it just needs to be changed.

--

and just to add, i'm not trying to be too snarky about it. i really do understand. it's alot like that useless shotgun they foist onto the NC for the vanguard. i really wish they'd think of something else. so while we don't agree in that i consider it unintended exploit-y and you might consider it unexpected feature-y, we all see it for what it is.

i will concede that it is a little out of place, and that this proposition and the drop pod proposition are the outliers in the group. however, i have included them because these two issues come up during play so often that they become what the title suggests. as much a quality of life issue for non NC Liberators as the current striker is for non TR Liberators. i would have included the striker but it's a very well known topic and currently being addressed on Test. so we can pretend for the sake of balance in the discussion that it's on the table here as well.

anyhow i don't expect these to be everyone's idea of 'best fixes' but i do appreciate the comments. thanks again.

KesTro · 2013-08-25, 07:35 PM

I liek it and I'm in general agreement with the rest about the Airhammer. IT's one of the few things NC have that people still like to bitch about. :P

Everything else seem like it wouldn't upset game balance too much save for every aircraft getting level 1 flares by default. Maybe this is just personal prefference but I hate when things become jack of all trades. I highly believe in specializing. When the annhi came out and decimated (hoho) the lock on launcher balance I about cried of course it was fixed shortly thereafter but then TR have a certain something everyone likes to bitch about don't they? :P

nlioc · 2013-08-31, 05:11 PM

I hope all of this gets taken into consideration by SOE, very good suggestions