Implants, take 2.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by exile

Most of the examples you give here are currently dominant strategies and introducing situational counters to these is actually good for game balance.

Currently a conc grenade is incredibly effective, any noob can throw one into a chokepoint and then pretty much waltz in and mop up. Adding the possibility that there may be conc immune players in there means that it is no longer a no-brain tactic. Saying "theres no reason to risk using them if they could do nothing" is ridiculous, you are basically saying "I don't want to have to actually use skill to beat someone".

You know why everyone uses thermal and NV? Because they are so effective they are basically "must-have" atm. They are currently "a huge advantage", giving them a counter actually improves balance and increases variety and effectiveness of tactical options across the board.

This is what I mean when I say that these options will make good players better, without implants. Added tactical complexity benefits smart players and teams.

The point you were making is they wont be giving people an advantage and I just listed ways that they will, conc nades are good aye, but so are rezz nades, wheres the implant that stops all rezz nades in a certain area working? and the NV one is a HUGE advantage especially for a certain almost black faction at night.

Its bad enough that all the heavies gear is being nerfed to uselessness 1 by 1 without implants making it worse.

[exile]

Originally Posted by War Barney

The point you were making is they wont be giving people an advantage and I just listed ways that they will, conc nades are good aye, but so are rezz nades, wheres the implant that stops all rezz nades in a certain area working? and the NV one is a HUGE advantage especially for a certain almost black faction at night.

Ffs, try and use your brain. Of course they will give an advantage in the specific situation they were designed for.

The point is whether or not they give an overall advantage and skew the game's balance in favour of people who are paying for implants. As I said before, I encourage discussion about specific implants and potential issues with them. And I can see that there could be some issues with the night vision counter, depending on how they implement it.

Originally Posted by War Barney

Its bad enough that all the heavies gear is being nerfed to uselessness 1 by 1 without implants making it worse.

What are you even talking about here?! HAs are totally dominant in their role.

[War Barney]

They definitely skew the balance, how is it not a rather huge advantage to be invisible to the most commonly used scope, how is it not game changing to be immune to a conc grenade as even if other people don't have that implant you alone could kill a lot of the people trying to get in if they don't expect it, (and they wont know who is and isn't affected).

As for heavy... well C4 is almost useless on sundies, range of lock on AA rocket has been reduced, hip-fire of LMGs has been made worse (well this doesn't affect VS but NC it means no choice but to use ADS at every range)

[exile]

Originally Posted by War Barney

They definitely skew the balance, how is it not a rather huge advantage to be invisible to the most commonly used scope, how is it not game changing to be immune to a conc grenade as even if other people don't have that implant you alone could kill a lot of the people trying to get in if they don't expect it, (and they wont know who is and isn't affected).

As for heavy... well C4 is almost useless on sundies, range of lock on AA rocket has been reduced, hip-fire of LMGs has been made worse (well this doesn't affect VS but NC it means no choice but to use ADS at every range)

You need an implant in real life, to help you think above the level of a six year old.

[wolfkrone]

I wish they would delay these til 2017 and develop the actual game instead

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by exile

You need an implant in real life, to help you think above the level of a six year old.

Its always funny when kids lose a argument, they just decide to go for insults =p.

[exile]

Originally Posted by War Barney

Its always funny when kids lose a argument, they just decide to go for insults =p.

Sigh. What argument? You haven't actually engaged in any discussion, you just keep repeating the same flawed statements. Saying the same thing over and over does not make an argument, it is more like a tantrum.

And your comments about the HA makes it obvious to everyone that you are totally clueless about game balance. I shouldn't even be wasting everyone's time replying to you, but it's a slow day at work :\

[ChipMHazard]

Guys, take it to the PMs.

[Ohaunlaim]

I'm not totally feeling the implants here. The whole system of combining them seems like a gimmick found in many a less desirable game.

I would suggest, instead, that there be three implant slots. This way, implants would need to be much less affective individually but you could stack three together to have a clear boost to whatever.

*ie the emp immunity would instead only lower the emp affects duration by a second or two. If you had three of them, you would only be affected by emp nades for a fraction of the time as other people were, but you would still be affected.

This would also allow a player to have multiple implants to aid in a variety of situations, but at reduced effectiveness.

And yes, these need to be drained in game-time, not real-time.

[Rahabib]

make em permanent but tie their use to resources or stamina or something else. By making them temporary it either makes them a money sink or increases the grind of the game because spending certs on implants just makes it so thats certs you can't spend on other things, making leveling up stuff much more difficult.

[ChipMHazard]

I do agree with Wrel about having the cert allow for more actual customization of the classes, since we don't have the PS1 cert system. I most certainly wouldn't mind seeing some more RPG elements implemented so it doesn't just keep on feeling like a very big, more or less generic, FPS.
Still, there's no important thing that SOE is missing here that PS1 had. Stamina drain. Obviously there's no stamina in PS2, but the point being that one way to help balance out powerful a implant is to give it a drawback.