Do we really need spawnbeacons?

[HereticusXZ]

Originally Posted by Boildown

I strongly believe that the above mentioned nerf needs to be undone

I completely disagree. Previous drop-control and accuracy with the drop pods was more then obnoxious and couldn't be countered beyond running through the killzone to destroy the beacon. The squad-beacon nerf helps to actually define battle-lines for a enjoyable fight. Squad Beacons serve only as a spawn and that's it.

The Galaxy drops is your alternative to drop behind the battle-line and disrupt the zerg. It's a giant target so you can actually defend against it. My issue is you need some weapon option outside of the main-cannon on a MBT or a Dalton/TankBuster Lib to destroy the Galaxy.

Skyguard, Burster, and Lock-Ons only serve as a deterrent. Air is the only hard-counter to air seems a little to blanketed IMO for the rock-paper-scissors theme PS2 is starting to go down.



EDIT: Not promoting another AA fiasco to repeat itself... I'm asking for a hard-counter to specifically the Galaxy over the general blanketed "Air is the only hard-counter to Air" that we have. IMO When we have a hard-coutner to the Galaxy, then will the Squad Beacon be signifigantly relevant again.

[Blynd]

I think they should go back to just having the ams and squad beacon no other forms of spawning outside of bases.

Squad deploy ia and the new vehicle spawning is just a joke there are too many ways to overwhelm a base in seconds if you have a good platoon leader you can have 4 squads spawned and on the ground in 25 seconds with only one gal. If that isn't op then I don't know what is but it has changed the way the game plays because of one stupid mechanic.

[KesTro]

Air isn't the only counter to air though. When a fight reaches critical mass and enough people pull 'any' kind of AA, Air can't do a damn thing in that fight. Air is only really effective when people aren't actively seeking to deter/counter them. It's when you wait until the air is already a problem that air seems really Overpowered. One burster max is often enough to deter 4 esf's or more from a single zone.

[HereticusXZ]

Originally Posted by KesTro

Air isn't the only counter to air though.

Air is the only hard-counter to Air.

The wonderful thing about flying vehicles is they have both the greatest speed and maneuverability, they can travel across the continent on a whim versus ground units that take time to travel around natural barriers.

Pilots fly in, get tagged by AA, use terrain to disengage and break LOS, come back later when the defenders aren't so focused on AA. Ground-Based AA can't chase the aircraft, not without abandoning a defense and putting forth a great effort to chase down moby dick.

Ground-based AA is only a deterrent, not a hard-counter.

Aircraft can chase other Aircraft and kill them, ergo Air is the only hard-counter to Air.





Back to the squad-beacon.... again I don't see it ever disappearing, space-marine fantasy drop-pod is to much fun, but that's what it feels like to me anyways. It's just the last ditch option to spawn in your squad when there's no Sunderer or Galaxy available.

Sunderer has a thousand things that can instantly or quickly destroy it, chief of which is tank mines....

The Galaxy can be threatened by AA but it has a ton of options to simply shrug off AA. Depending only on ESF and Libs as the only sure-fire way to deal with a Galaxy.... It just seems kinda meh to me and I don't think the Galaxy needs a nerf, at all.

I think it would be cooler to just apply rock-paper-scissors and add a more specific option to hard-counter Galaxy-Spawn that doesn't involve the blanketed Aircraft counters Aircraft. Be it in the form of a weapon or some Engineer utility tool like a EMP dart that works only on AMS vehicles, briefly disabling the squad-spawn vehicle as a option....


If Galaxy-Spawn can get a effective counter, then Squad Beacon I imagine would hold more value again.

[BlaxicanX]

I inherently disagree with giving any infantry a hard-counter to air, on the basis that anything you can give to infantry inevitably results in it being spammed. As a participant in many a "striker squad", "burster nest" and warpgate troll-party, I can attest to the fact that if one guy has access to something that can shut down a vehicle, you'll be seeing twenty guys hanging out all using that weapon at the exact same time.

At which point the air game gets screwed, pilots complain and another round of buffs and nerfs are handed out.

Only thing that should hardcounter air are vehicles, imo.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX

I inherently disagree with giving any infantry a hard-counter to air, on the basis that anything you can give to infantry inevitably results in it being spammed. As a participant in many a "striker squad", "burster nest" and warpgate troll-party, I can attest to the fact that if one guy has access to something that can shut down a vehicle, you'll be seeing twenty guys hanging out all using that weapon at the exact same time.

At which point the air game gets screwed, pilots complain and another round of buffs and nerfs are handed out.

Only thing that should hardcounter air are vehicles, imo.

At which point though you end up with air determining who wins like it does now, infantry has no say vehicles have no say only air determines the winner as it can destroy all infantry and vehicles with ease and almost no risk. Hell a skyguard perhaps the best ground based AA there is wont kill a ESF faster than it'll get killed by a ESF and thats a vehicle!. As infantry I've learnt to just ignore air unless it comes so close to the ground I can dumbfire at them, something I'm seeing happen more and more as air realises theres pretty much nothing on the ground that can threaten them.

Pilots might like the idea of being gods, answerable to nobody except other air but its ruins the balance, whoever controls the air will just bombard the ground to hell until the other side calls in enough air to stop them and then they win.

The problem is air is way to durable right now, it takes about 2 clips of a burster to take out a ESF and a ton of bursters focusing on a lib to just scare it off! they rarely die unless they pilot is a idiot and hangs around very low to the ground for ages. The great power and maneuverability of air is meant to be balanced by them being defensively weak but in planetside air is if anything the strongest armoured things around, a lib takes about as many hits as a tank to kill if not more and a gal is the toughest thing in the whole game to kill. But they also get the strongest weapons, fasted speeds and greatest maneuverability, the balance is completely out of whack.

[BlaxicanX]

Air doesn't determine who wins now.

It might in the competitive circuit, but in generic PS2, air doesn't do a whole lot besides pick off infantry and get blown up, especially against an organized outfit that can pull AA in numbers.

After the Amerish revamp, air will be even less useful.

[War Barney]

It does determine who wins with organised platoons, if you have 2 or 3 libs spamming explosives at the ground theres almost no way to do anything until you get counter air. Ground AA is no use as a libs so tough it will blow up all the ground AA before it has to retreat for a minute for a full repair meaning only infantry focusing on it will make it have to leave every 10mins for repairs but ofc it'll get a LOT of kills in that time.

[Baneblade]

I actually think Spawn Beacons should have a completely different use entirely: Placing them creates a spawn jamming zone against enemy spawns. Only base/outpost spawns would be immune.

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

I actually think Spawn Beacons should have a completely different use entirely: Placing them creates a spawn jamming zone against enemy spawns. Only base/outpost spawns would be immune.

The idea that PS2 lacks any kind of denial mechanics is older than AA vs Air debate, sadly. I think it comes from the point of view that it's boring to deploy something that may not even be used. Just compare PS2 "minefields" to... No not PS1's. BF's minefields.

[HereticusXZ]

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX

I inherently disagree with giving any infantry a hard-counter to air

I'm not talking giving infantry some new weapon to be bought and spammed.... I'm suggesting a base-defense turret aka Skylance that's specifically a hard counter to Galaxies.

Give it a slow enough turret rotation that it can track a gal but not a fast moving ESF and sorta improvised against a Lib, I think it would be fine.

Solve the problem of specifically countering a Gal then the Squad Beacon gets value again.