| Forums | Chat | News | Contact Us | Register |
PSU Social
|
 |
PSU: OMG, HE HAX
| Home | Forum | Chat | Wiki | Social | AGN | PS2 Stats |
|
|
|
||||||
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
| Forums | Chat | News | Contact Us | Register |
PSU Social
|
|
| Home | Forum | Chat | Wiki | Social | AGN | PS2 Stats |
|
|
|
||||||
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
2015-01-18, 10:07 PM
|
[Ignore Me] #1 | ||
|
Lieutenant General
|
 (click to enlarge) Just food for thought. Consider changes such as: - Reduced max height for infantry jetpack (only one story) - SOI antenna blocking hostile droppods in a circle around the base. - Control Console on top - Spawnroom inside main building - Base Generator inside main building - Fortified vehicle pad (includes two infantry entrances) - Walkways all around "keep" - Internal areas contain ~6 levels with varying degrees of accessibility from 0 to 4 entrances each Consider effects on: - Galdrop feasibility - Defense feasibility - Tactical objective gameplay |
||
|
|
|
2015-01-19, 06:01 AM
|
[Ignore Me] #2 | ||
|
Lieutenant General
|
[All floorplans added!]
  FLOOR 0 (GROUND LEVEL) Main features:
Losing the ground level to enemy forces is quite likely with this amount of entrances. However, a good defense can win each section back one at a time. Defense of the V-Pad results in defense of the Shield Generator. This means that infiltrators might have a better chance of reaching the gen than jetpacks, taking back part of their saboteur niche role. This shield generator should be possible to blow up by setting several explosive charges (4 to 6 total, should require one infil to make two runs to set enough charges). Repairs should take one engineer about 120 seconds*. *Being so close to the invading fight, it is rather inexcusable to not check this area regularly for sabotage attempts. So if it gets blown up, it's your problem for letting enemies pass through. Shielded infantry windows around the v-pad exit allow for clearing of the outer shield so vehicles can exit the shield more safely. (Inside-Outside Transition zone). Losing the lobby means losing control of the equipment terminals and thus causes a bit of attrition to the defender. If you manage to capture the room with the terminals intact, infiltrators should be able to hack into them, providing the assailant with new resources. IMPORTANT NOTICE: Infils should not TAKE OVER equipment terminals from defenders. Equipment terminals should primarily benefit the defender logistically and should have anti-virals that undo hacks in time. Infils should simply open them up for temporary use by the assaulting force. Preferably not all players can hack open terminals for character uniqueness and ensuring that by taking out specific players you can deny the assaulting force access to your terminals. The bunkers also provide a way to slowly fight your way out, next to defending your ground level entry points. Note that the shield walls as depicted in the first image have been left out for schematic simplification purposes. These are however needed to allow indoor-outdoor infantry play to be more gradual. Transition zones between types of combat are needed to mitigate the effect of heavy hardware that can be used outdoors to camp. 6 to 8 entrances (not counting the leg-tower stairs) should provide sufficient ways to break in, if not by a big assault group, then by infiltrators. It should also provide sufficient exits to not be camped too much. FLOOR 1 (MEDICAL BAY LEVEL)  Main Features:
This floor is connected strongly to the lower level. The stair provides the main choke point which can be bypassed either by taking the lobby and using the stairs to the leg-towers and then the walkways, or by using Jetpacks to reach the upper areas (of the lobby and v-pad, or directly to the external areas). The medical bay holds facilities for defenders without medics or engineers to heal up and repair their MAX units. This process is slower than using actual medics. These facilities can be opened up for temporary use by the enemy through infiltrators with hacking tools. FLOOR 2 (MAIN GENERATOR LEVEL)  Main Features:
On this level there are two more entrances to the keep, seemingly close to an exit from the spawns, but ending up opposite of it near the other stair well section that leads upstairs. On that same opposite side an enclosed area containing the main generator room can be found. The spawns have one pair of exits on this level through the armory which holds two equipment terminals. It connects to a couple of living quarter rooms: the kitchen and cantine. In this version, the armory (being connected to the spawnroom) is shielded with two shield doors. The generator room has two entrances, a splitting entrypoint on floor 2. The Main Generator can thus be held by a relatively small group covering the two entrances to the generator. Generator holds could become a viable tactic again, not just by going ahead of the chain, but also by gal dropping from upstairs since it is relatively close to the top floor. If the Main Generator goes down, all benefits generated by and passing through this lattice link will stop being transfered, all terminals and shields in the base will also power down, although the shields will remain up for about a minute until the energy reserves in the separate generators is used up. The two remaining leg-towers can be reached from this level's external walkways. It is clear that this floor would be a major and I mean, MAJOR chokepoint, what with the routes all passing through the same hall. However, the chokepoint works both ways for attackers and defenders and taking one corridor can break control over another or a particular direction. Once control of the central area is gained, the Main Generator becomes an easy target. To prevent a deadlock here, it is advised to use a Galaxy drop on the upper level or have jetpack troops scale the walls on the outside. As a sidenote, the idea of using living quarters is to make the world feel more real. Adding a Little Nublets room (toilets) somewhere near the cantine would add to the emersion that this is a real universe with people living and working in this environment. FLOOR 3 (SPAWN ROOM LEVEL)  Main Features:
The spawnroom has two exits on this floor, each leading by the Spawn Shield Generator. If this generator goes down, that's really your fault for not paying attention, because everyone passes by it. This generator can be destroyed with charges similar to the vehicle pad generator, the only difference is you need only two charges (it is much harder to reach and hold), but it also takes one engineer 120-150 seconds to repair. This to ensure that if an infiltrator is succesful, the effect is not immediately counteracted as in PS2 everyone can be an engineer. Once down, the spawn room is open for assault as the shields drop instantly. Spawn Tubes can then be destroyed by destroying the matrixing (base spawn binding) panels next to them. A painfield should remain active though to discourage camping, unless the Main Generator goes down, which also takes down the spawn room shields. The Security Room is a new type of room, but houses a feature known to the later veterans: the Operations Terminal ("Main Terminal" in PS1). This terminal provides the squad, platoon and outfit leader with commands to send to his or her underlings, including such things as:
A new feature of the Operations Terminal would be allowing the player to monitor heavy fighting activity around the base, using fixed cams spread around the perimeter. Only areas under alert are shown on this monitor, for instance, if a generator is under attack, or there is heavy fighting in a particular area of the base that has a camera. This allows the player to see where he or she is needed most at that time. Enemy infiltrators with a hacking tool can use this terminal to upload some subtle virals. Only one viral can be active at any time. The more impacting a viral, the sooner it gets detected and removed by the anti-virus system and the longer it takes before it can be used again.
A radar blackout in PS1 was used standard to conceil all enemies, even those one spotted themselves. In fact, it even conceiled all allies, making it impossible to see where they went. It lasted many minutes and was continuously renewed, making fights very one sided (in favour of the attacker), as such it had the opposite effect of Interlink radar, but worse, because you could not coordinate anymore and lost all your radar situational awareness. The Radar Blackout virus in PS2 should be used as a tactical, timed tool in coordination with an assault. For instance a Galaxy Drop. Virals can be removed more swiftly by infiltrators of the faction that owns the base, provided the base is powered. [COLOR="rgb(255, 140, 0)"]FLOOR 4 (CONTROL CONSOLE LEVEL)[/COLOR]  Main Features:
The CC is left deliberately vulnerable to Galaxy Drops on either the rooftop or Airpad. It is somewhat incapsulated in a double ring, allowing to try for a hold by smaller groups, including Gal Drops. The CC capture method should be a pure timer in the order of 10-12 minutes. 15 minutes would be good too, but is likely too long to remain interesting in case of a ghost. 10-12 minutes is needed to attempt a resecure strike. One cannot try to defend something if one cannot reach it in time to defend it after all. Recapture timers upon a hack (aside from the hacking time) should not exist or be in the order of 30 seconds. The side trying to capture should actively try to prevent these resecure attempts, not linger randomly about the base, knowing they won't lose much time even if they do lose the point. This increases the value of the point and creates a clear win/loss situation, where the defenders (usualy being outnumbered) and even lone people get a chance to thwart/outplay the zerg in one action. They will remember such moments far more brightly than if all effort and playing against all odds turned out to be useless (and I can tell you it often has at least for me been a huge demotivator to keep playing if anything I did was going to end up useless due to capture mechanics benefetting the derpiest side with the most players). Ideally a tool should be used to hack, rather than proximity rules. The reason is proximity rules allows a player to not be preoccupied or even be aware or putting effort in the (re)capturing process. Proximity rules means that any person trying to thwart this recapture attempt does not get an increased chance. Let the player's allies protect the player hacking the CC. They should not only be thinking of kill-kill-kill, but kill-to-protect and deny/deter-enemy-access-to-area as well. This is afterall more varied and smarter (team)play and therefore more rewarding and satisfying due to not being more of the same, while getting the thanks and comrady from those you protected or helped on purpose rather than by accident because killing stuff helps. It is also vulnerable to HART drops, obviously, but only when the antenna that jams the signals from the HART squad beacons is deactivated. The controls for this antenna are in the separate section that can only be reached from the outside. It is a bit harder to regain control of, but as long as it is under control, the top section of the base is only vulnerable to air strikes. As such, it is a major tactical objective which either infiltrators, jetpacks or air droppers can go for in order to create a new way into the base. Please note that airborn spawning is too logistically zerg-friendly and should not be done. Convenience of organisation in this way is not fair to an outnumbered defender that has to protect many entry points and can't regain air control. It would be a cart blanche to win the base if you can just spawn troops in the air. At least having to collect and ferry them back and forth should be done to give defenders a bit of a break and the ability to succesfully deter an assault from above. The Tech Labs are simply places to fight through where technology can be displayed. FLOOR 5 (ROOFTOP LEVEL)  Main Features:
The rooftop is mostly accessible so that jetpackers can't stay out of reach and camp, but also provides alternative drop access points into the base. Last edited by Figment; 2015-01-19 at 05:13 PM. |
||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-19, 06:22 AM
|
[Ignore Me] #3 | ||
|
Contributor General
|
It looks good. Nice to see the spawn rooms protected.
My questions would be: How complex is the internals? I don't know if you saw the ps2 Interlink but I thought that was too complicated and it seems SOE agreed. Where are the capture points located? (and for that matter now many) Did the ever see the Tech Plant on Nexus (the ruffnex did a scrim on there which was tvtwitched)? I thought it was an improvement on the standard tech plant - the spawns were closer, there were 3 cap points, 1 on the ground level, 1 in the usual place and 1 on the top deck in the building that was vulnerable to gal drops.
__________________
|
||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-19, 07:55 AM
|
[Ignore Me] #4 | ||
|
Lieutenant General
|
I'm going to make internal layouts (and add them to post #2). Those will answer most your questions in time.
I would go with just ONE capture point, located at the top of the base, behind the Air Pad room, vulnerable to Gal Drops. A V-Pad in the bottom of the base. And Spawn Rooms in between. Sound familiar?  The reason is I want only one CC, is so that resecure attempts are able to focus on one point, it is clear to both defender and attacker what the key points to take are and defense be able to focus with a single instant-resecure strikes on a pressure point or stealth attempt when outnumbered. I want the ticker-tug-of-war system removed completely as it puts unrealistic demands on most defense parties. I want players to be able to dig in, but I also want a NTU silo, so that bases can be drained in siege (any damage to the base should drain its NTU). I'm thinking of putting it near the lobby bunker. You know, where all the silos are now and that half circle structure. I'm thinking of having to fill three separate silos to get the base fully charged, making NTU runs just that bit more demanding to both attacker and defender (having several silos allows easier access to one, but also means you have to get all back in your control and losing one silo to the defenders so they can refill it only lengthens the siege a little bit, not endlessly like in PS1). Compared to the PS1 Tech Plant, which had 5 entry points total (Backdoor, Lobby entrance, 2 airpad entrances, Vpad) for the PS2 Tech Plant, I'm going with 6 + vpad shields on ground floor, 6 entry points on walkway level which can be reached by Jetpacks and Gal Drops (2 at the leg-towers leading to the lobby, 2 to the keep) and 4 entry points on the Airpad (2 top level, 2 on airpad level). The SOI antenna and platform will be a separate section that can only be reached from the airpad level, making it ideal for Gal Drops to start at. That building will have 4 entry points too. That makes for a total of 12 regular entry points and 2 vpad entry points. It is possible some of these entry points (for example the leg-tower points and airpad top section entry points) will have shields which could be deactivated from the inside by infiltrators. In terms of complication btw: I want there to be main routes (which would likely be the type of campy indoor fights we know from PS1), with by-pass routes that go inside -> external -> inside. Typically, I want it to be linear or semi-linear fights internally. I see the layout as a line between v-pad and airpad, with CC, gens and spawns as intermediate stages to (by-)pass, depending from which direction you're coming in. I want the spawns to be able to block someone working their way up, or working their way down by taking control of Keep entry points and stairwells. But it will be less complicated since you will only have a couple ways to go, but they also converge again before you take the next stage. For instance, if you acquire the Lobby and want to get to somewhere upstairs you could fight for the V-Pad to reach the inner keep: Lobby <---> V-Pad <---> V-Pad Shield Gen <---> Walkway levels (internal) <---> Generator level <---> Spawnroom level <---> CC level <---> Airpad , but you could also take the longer route: Lobby <---> Leg-Tower <---> Walkways (external) <---> Walkways (internal) <---> etc. Which means you would have to fight back into the inside of the keep even if you already had the lobby, it just makes it easier to get to the next line of defense and force the fight there. But as you can see, you just go around the V-Pad and V-Pad Shield Gen. You still have to get through the upper inner level of defenses to get to say the CC. So you as a defender or attacker, have this constant tug-of-war inside/outside in the infantry only zones and transition zonees. Internal objectives should be reasonably well protected due to defenders always passing by them on their way anywhere and that's a good thing, since taking these points can deliver blows to a defense or defense line. Gaining access to bypasses allows you to cut-off defender routes and push them back a line of defense as well. But in principle, any route the attackers take should put them through a route that defenders take anyway. Last edited by Figment; 2015-01-19 at 08:48 AM. |
||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-19, 12:41 PM
|
[Ignore Me] #5 | ||
|
Lieutenant General
|
Added all floorplans and explainations for all six floors.
Please note that the corridors may appear smaller at this scale than they actually would be. This goes especially for the stairs too! Last edited by Figment; 2015-01-19 at 05:13 PM. |
||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-19, 05:36 PM
|
[Ignore Me] #6 | ||
|
Lieutenant General
|
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...design.212417/
Posted on official forums. Let's see what they say. ;p |
||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-20, 04:17 AM
|
[Ignore Me] #7 | ||
|
Contributor General
|
another awesome design alteration you've done there Fig, glad to see you still haven't given up on PS2. It's such a tragedy that the Dev's can't see all the wasted potential in their own bases. They need to pull that "It's not part of our design formula" stick from their asses.
Watching the WIP streams of them building or altering bases you can see how badly they shoehorn themselves into their outdated game philosophy.
__________________
  "Don't matter who did what to who at this point. Fact is, we went to war, and now there ain't no going back. I mean shit, it's what war is, you know? Once you in it, you in it! If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight. " Slim Charles aka Tallman - The Wire BRTD Mumble Server powered by Gamercomms |
||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-20, 05:23 AM
|
[Ignore Me] #8 | |||
|
Lieutenant General
|
 There's also always the odd chance a developer comes along and gets inspired by the concepts and explanations and puts it in practice on other base types that have yet to be built... |
|||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-20, 06:23 AM
|
[Ignore Me] #9 | ||
|
Contributor General
|
It references so many ps1 things. I particularly like:-
extended hack capture times versus short resecure times along with destroyable spawns. This means if attackers want to be successful they need to be organised and located themselves at the critical points in the building guarding against a resecure attempt. Likewise, the resecure crew have also to be organised, if they simply drift in they can be cleaned up by an good organised defence. So resecurers need a plan and they nee to execute it well. For me this is a buff for leaders and a buff for those people wanting good objective gameplay and ps2 needs to do that more than it does at present. One other thing is the map, for me it currently gives too much information and there is hardly a great need for scouting.
__________________
|
||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-20, 12:01 PM
|
[Ignore Me] #10 | ||
|
First Sergeant
|
I know it's easy to get hyped and board the train of praise when seeing "Figment redesign" threads but theres some awesome work gone into this, I think this has some serious potential of improving the empty warehouses littered over the current continents.
Aside from it looking like an epic POI centre piece - the design just makes sense; yet still punishing for defenders as much as it's clearly had it's current failings boarded up. Mind if I tweeted the thread to XanderClauss Figment? Who knows when Koltyr is off his to do list.. Last edited by Carbon Copied; 2015-01-20 at 12:04 PM. |
||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-20, 12:06 PM
|
[Ignore Me] #11 | |||
|
Lieutenant General
|
|
|||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-20, 05:00 PM
|
[Ignore Me] #12 | ||
|
Second Lieutenant
|
I love it but sadly the current generation of shooter players just want to run and gun for stats. You could put them out in an empty continent, well maybe with trees and they would be happy as long as they could buy silly cosmetics and guns with little stat differences to make it on the leaderboards.
|
||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-24, 06:08 AM
|
[Ignore Me] #14 | |||||||||
|
Lieutenant General
|
- He has faith in TDM design (tower death match) as a defense - I feel these walls funnel defenders and only block (and cover) routes for non-jetpack assailants without being a direct threat to them, making assault easier, rather than harder since you can walk around the walls in safety (defensive jetpackers aren't as much of a threat as offensive ones IMO). Btw, some of those new roofcover art assets might prove useful for defenders. We'll see. Some might be used by attackers when used to create tunnels. Last edited by Figment; 2015-01-24 at 06:14 AM. |
|||||||||
|
|
|
|
2015-01-24, 11:22 AM
|
[Ignore Me] #15 | ||
|
First Sergeant
|
@Figment
I can see what he's saying in with regards to Koltyr specifically; however with live pops there's clearly a needed change in thinking as the bases are played changes too much. I think some of the outposts have their place as they are and can afford to be abit leaky, I guess you could call these TDM arenas they work for the quick and dirty skirmishes (variety, spice of life and all that jazz). For me the problem with base design mantra in general is that this is applied to nearly all bases throughout and essentially try to be de_dust "both teams, x time to the bomb site". Towers mostly just suck and apart from being too small for the numbers that crawl over them, the lack of "getting there" like you say lacks layers or if they do have layers you're either in the tower in order to defend or stuck on the ground in a shooting gallery without any medium between (the ascent with the "dm_morpheus stlye bouncing around like a complete twat on choke points"). Similar is the case when it comes to the lack of layers around main centre pieces (tech/bio/amp). What's even MORE annoying is a distinct lack of trying something different outside of trying to shift a few props and hope it fixes itself (Ikanam) or putting up security fences (many Esamir bases). Anyway that aside... when are the tech plant adjustments going in? 
Last edited by Carbon Copied; 2015-01-24 at 11:24 AM. |
||
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Bookmarks |
|
|
Linear Mode
