Regenerating Health?...Why? - Page 10

MrBloodworth · 2012-06-06, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

If you don't want someone regenerating, shoot them.

That already happened!

CutterJohn · 2012-06-06, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

That already happened!

Obviously not enough.

The Janitor · 2012-06-06, 03:03 PM

Yeah, just make sure you kill people when you shoot them. I never had a problem with health regen since, you know, you can't regen while you're getting bullets to the face.

infinite loop · 2012-06-06, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by wasdie

Not at all, im feeding off what I see from the videos. I've specifically said that they've moved spawn points closer and it's easier to get into the battle then in Planetside 1.

Having micro supply and support blanked the infantry game across the board would kill the "fast paced" element pretty quickly. You're scheme revolves around pretty dedicated individuals playing support. Playing any FPS in the past 10 year has shown me that the average gamer does not care about that (try getting some ammo from a support in BF3). You can get some pretty dedicated groups of course, but when your target isn't a small niche audience, it's best to not burden the general gameplay with things that only a handful of people will find enjoyable.

It's an unnecessary distraction from this game. There are plenty of other teamwork oriented gameplay elements here that can be focused on which do not detract from the average lone-wolf game experience. Instead they enhance the game for those who choose to work as a very well coordinated team.

That's gameplay in 2012. You can't satisfy everybody, but you can satisfy the middle standard deviations. You're always going to have people who want everything taken to the next level because they have a belief that this more "hardcore" element is going to be better.

The health regen could just be a cert, we don't know. Even if it isn't, it's still much longer than your average and I'll bet you that it gets tweaked depending on player feedback and what they observe during beta. Health regen in a large scale FPS like this gets rid of many annoyances. Being stuck out in the middle of nowhere with no health and no ability to heal yourself (as it looks like those have been taken out) is going to happen quite a bit here if there is no health regen. I already brought up the point that PS2 has a faster pace than PS1 and that this pace dictates a different direction in how health is going to be handled.

From the gameplay, things like momentum and really micro-level squad tactics mean a lot more than they did before. Medics on the frontline healing people very quickly, people getting gunned down much quicker, the frontlines moving at a much faster pace. This is being integrated well with the large scale but a lot of the infantry play from PS1 has had to be adapted to fit the pace. Given the general trend of how people act in FPSs today and this increase paced, I can guess that most people will just rambo to their deaths instead of waiting for a medic to stroll on by. Unless getting back into the fight takes a significant effort (which it doesn't anymore), forcing people to stop and wait for a medic will result in a lower player retention.

You can throw up artificial barriers to make a game more difficult/annoying and require more teamwork, or you could make working as a team have more advantages so people do it for the rewards, not because they are forced. Nobody will be taking an objective by themselves in this game. Pure lone wolfing won't happen, so don't worry about that. However, putting people in a fast paced shooting environment then punching them in the gut every time they get into a firefight all in the sake of tradition and being "hardcore" is just going to be annoying to the average player. Give them intensive to work as a team. Make them feel like a solider alone yet part of a mighty army when they work together. Don't make them feel weak and insignificant.

Great post, really hits the important reasons for this to exist in a modern fps. Anti-fun or annoying mechanics need to be reduced or prevented as much as possible. We need casual players to get hooked to grow the playerbase, and tedium won't attract them.

KTNApollo · 2012-06-06, 04:06 PM

MAXs could drive vehicles in the demo. I'm sure some of the mechanics were tinkered with to make the demo better for first time players.

wasdie · 2012-06-06, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by infinite loop

Great post, really hits the important reasons for this to exist in a modern fps. Anti-fun or annoying mechanics need to be reduced or prevented as much as possible. We need casual players to get hooked to grow the playerbase, and tedium won't attract them.

Tedium is often associated with "hardcore" and that's just wrong. Something that is tedious shouldn't be labeled hardcore for the sake of it being tedious and people who don't want to do that aren't instantly casual CoD noobs who just want to get easy kill. Something that is "hardcore" in the terms of a gameplay element is something that requires more thought, strategy, or skill. A good hardcore element engages the users as much as it challenges them, not just challenges them or bores them through some tedious cycle. Older game design often fell prey to a lot of tedious elements due to technological limitations or a different perspective on what makes games fun.

Modern games don't suffer from that. In order for PS2 to appeal to the widest audience out there, they need to make sure that the meta-game requires skill and strategy but the micro-game doesn't suffer from tedium. Let the two work together seamlessly with players being able to enjoy the game on whatever level they take an interest in.

There should be room for the Rambo MAX and the Galaxy pilot that got them there. It's not an easy task, but I think the PS2 team knows what they are doing and are heading in the right direction. The changes to the map, the upgrade to the infantry play, but the depth in the character customization and changes to the logistics will all move this game in a better direction and appeal to a much broader audience and only alienate a small portion of the hardcore fanbase.

Let's be honest, there are some people here who will just not be happy. As long as they stay the vocal minority, the team is doing a good job.

captainkapautz · 2012-06-06, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

In regards to BF3. Why do so many people forget about hardcore mode? In hardcore there is no health regen, no ammo/clip indicator, and no 3D spotting. Hell, I liked BC2 hardcore even better because it took away the map as well. So for all the people saying that BF3 is dumbed down..it may be in some ways, but playing on hardcore mode is well...fucking hard.

No, it's BF3, so it's bad and dumbed down by definition.

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

If you don't want someone regenerating, shoot them.

That's a preposterous notion.

infinite loop · 2012-06-06, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by wasdie

Tedium is often associated with "hardcore" and that's just wrong. Something that is "hardcore" in the terms of a gameplay element is something that requires more thought, strategy, or skill. A good hardcore element engages the users as much as it challenges them, not just challenges them or bores them through some tedious cycle. Older game design often fell prey to a lot of tedious elements due to technological limitations or a different perspective on what makes games fun.

Modern games don't suffer from that. In order for PS2 to appeal to the widest audience out there, they need to make sure that the meta-game requires skill and strategy but the micro-game doesn't suffer from tedium. Let the two work together seamlessly with players being able to enjoy the game on whatever level they take an interest in.

There should be room for the Rambo MAX and the Galaxy pilot that got them there. It's not an easy task, but I think the PS2 team knows what they are doing and are heading in the right direction. The changes to the map, the upgrade to the infantry play, but the depth in the character customization and changes to the logistics will all move this game in a better direction and appeal to a much broader audience and only alienate a small portion of the hardcore fanbase.

Let's be honest, there are some people here who will just not be happy. As long as they stay the vocal minority, the team is doing a good job.

Sadly I fear that the most hardcore PS fans who continued playing over the years are in for a rude awakening. There are plenty of reasons that very few people played PS over the last 6-7 years, many of which it is looking like are being handled in PS2. I hope the hardcores will find a way to enjoy the more modernized version regardless.

EVILoHOMER · 2012-06-06, 04:29 PM

Having regen health doesn't mean dumbed down and especially the way BF3 did it where medics are still useful because it's slow. The only thing it means is you can solo the game and not need other people to have fun and I don't see the problem with this.

I was one of those Planetside players who played solo but would join random people as I came across them and helped them too. Also you have to remember you might not be able to be a soldier who can repair and heal himself like you could in Planetside. Which I might add is the dumber mechanic and slow regen health...

I like being a solo player who joins other players as I come across them. I don't like being involved in corps and organising the whole Galaxy drop thing. For some people that is fun but for me it takes too long to get into the action and normally by the time you get it all set up, people often leave for dinner or whatever lol.

So slow regen health means I can play alone and not have to run around finding a medic all the time. However if there is a medic around to heal me then great, it's faster and gets me in the action faster or even revive me.

No problem with it now stop whining!

stargazer093 · 2012-06-06, 04:52 PM

just thinking, in this case, could a health system like mass effect 3 tweak the health regeneration and medic? which you have five smaller health bars, if one of them is gone and the second one is about half full, 20 secs later health will only regenerate to fill until the second bar. in order to get all the health bars full, you`ll need medic or medic terminal or whatever to patch you up

The Kush · 2012-06-06, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Zekeen

Hehe, you dorks. It's for the sake of the new playtesters at E3. They added in a lot of stuff they are removing after E3 so the game goes over better with those greenhorns with their heads cut off trying to find the next guy to kill.

So don't worry and relax, regenerating health will most likely be gone. Shields regen, health does not.

I think I heard Clegg say they had features in just for E3, so I do know for a fact many of the negative features were just for show.

Hopefully this

Nasher · 2012-06-06, 05:49 PM

tbh MAXes are the only ones who should regen health. In PS1 they were more squishy than regular armour a lot of the time due to the amount of anti-vehicle weapons flying around. You would last 3 seconds out in the open :/

Drakkonan · 2012-06-06, 05:54 PM

All the arguments for health regen are so awful. We're going to end up with a big group of people at full health, and a big group of corpses, with nothing in between. You could argue that this would occur regardless of the existence of regen, but with health regen kicking in after only 25 seconds, the chance of a medic running into one of the very few players that actually has depleted health is reduced even more.

You can't effectively heal someone while they're taking shots, so the only opportunity to heal is during breaks in the action. But very rarely are you going to encounter a break that is long enough to heal, but not long enough for health regen to kick in.

The shields serve their purpose. To get people back in the action without having to wait around for an engineer to repair them. I don't see what purpose regenerating health serves other than a 'backup' shield.