Quick Knife - Is it really the best option?

[Froglicker]

Originally Posted by qbert2

If you're out of ammo and someone has a gun in your face you should feel impotent. You screwed up and are about to get shot in the face.

No soldier is ever truly defenseless unless all their arms and legs are cut off or they are shot in the spine. Every single formal modern army trains their soldiers in at least basic melee combat. If you are caught without ammo with a gun in your face, you're at a severe disadvantage, not defeated. With skill and a little luck you should be able to at least have a chance to get through it.

As for the OP, I like the idea of a quick riflebutt-strike (or maybe a kick) along with equippable knife. Especially if the rifle strick has small knockback or a very short(like 1/2 sec) stun. It'd serve the purpose of creating some distance to more easily shoot the guy while the equippable knife serves for close range stealth kills.

Whatever ends up in at launch, just say NO to quick-knife

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by Froglicker

No soldier is ever truly defenseless unless all their arms and legs are cut off or they are shot in the spine. Every single formal modern army trains their soldiers in at least basic melee combat. If you are caught without ammo with a gun in your face, you're at a severe disadvantage, not defeated. With skill and a little luck you should be able to at least have a chance to get through it.

Some would argue that a knife is much more dangerous up close than a gun is. A knife can give many grievous wounds in a short time, even worse wounds than a gunshot would. A gun is pretty awkward for firing at point blank range and bullets are only so big.

There's a reason why cops shoot guys who charge them with a knife.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

knives don't hurt people as much as bullets. Slicing open some skin that you can stick back together vs punching out inch wide holes of meat.

Especially when you're wearing body armour. Knives just slide off.

blunt attacks ignore armour better than knives. Quick knife is the devil, rifle butt smash is acceptable but neither one has a place in PS2.

Having said that, an infiltrator that sneaks up, knife out and has time and opportunity to cut someone's head off totally deserves it.

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

knives don't hurt people as much as bullets. Slicing open some skin that you can stick back together vs punching out inch wide holes of meat.

Especially when you're wearing body armour. Knives just slide off.

blunt attacks ignore armour better than knives. Quick knife is the devil, rifle butt smash is acceptable but neither one has a place in PS2.

I would beg to differ, friend. Unless you're being shot with very high caliber rounds, a knife stab wound (who slashes with a knife??) will be much larger, cause more damage to internal organs and bleed out faster. Especially considering you could stab someone multiple times in the span of a couple seconds. Someone who knows how to use a knife in a fight (and since we're given ES knives, I'm assuming our soldiers do) can do serious damage.

Reality aside, though, I think there shouldn't be quick knife. No reason for it. knives won't be used very often anyway and quick-knife just seems like a way to shoehorn it where it doesn't belong. The really only viable situations where a knife is useful is A) you've run out of ammo and it's your last resort or B) You've snuck up on someone who isn't paying attention. There should be equippable knives to fill this niche.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

I would beg to differ, friend. Unless you're being shot with very high caliber rounds, a knife stab wound (who slashes with a knife??) will be much larger, cause more damage to internal organs and bleed out faster. Especially considering you could stab someone multiple times in the span of a couple seconds. Someone who knows how to use a knife in a fight (and since we're given ES knives, I'm assuming our soldiers do) can do serious damage.

Reality aside, though, I think there shouldn't be quick knife. No reason for it. knives won't be used very often anyway and quick-knife just seems like a way to shoehorn it where it doesn't belong. The really only viable situations where a knife is useful is A) you've run out of ammo and it's your last resort or B) You've snuck up on someone who isn't paying attention. There should be equippable knives to fill this niche.

You beg to differ eh? First up, all the quick knife animations I've seen have been slashing, not stabbing. That's why I talked about slashing.

Additionally, a high percentage of people who have been shot in the torso with the Austeyr has died. Combination of the tumbling, fragmenting bullets and the huge amount of energy that gets transferred into the body.
My Staff Sergeant got shot in the arm by an AK47 and lost it at the elbow.

People get knifed in the torso all the time and get stitched up in hospital with just a scar on one side of the body. The VAST majority of them do not die - opposite to the Austeyr.

quick knife should be as damaging as being yelled at, if it is added at all.

[Froglicker]

You beg to differ eh? First up, all the quick knife animations I've seen have been slashing, not stabbing. That's why I talked about slashing.

All the more reason why a quick-knife, at least the current iteration of it, is stupid.

Additionally, a high percentage of people who have been shot in the torso with the Austeyr has died. My Staff Sergeant got shot in the arm by an AK47 and lost it at the elbow.

Submachine guns and pistols, those are not. Those are both relatively HIGH CALIBER rifles, which Ratstomper specifically excluded from his argument.

People get knifed in the torso all the time and get stitched up in hospital with just a scar on one side of the body. The VAST majority of them do not die - opposite to the Austeyr.

I can only assume most people don't get shot by Austeyrs near medical facilities as do people who are knifed. Most civilians, gang members, and prisoners don't have access to highpowered rifles, but have much easier times getting knives and pointy things. I'd also assume soldiers are more likely to be shot by high powered rifles in battlefields where hospitals are either far or more difficult to get to, but I could be wrong.
Either way, if you have a gaping hole in your gut or throat, you're still gonna die without immediate medical attention. It doesn't matter whether it came from a blade or a bullet.

quick knife should be as damaging as being yelled at, if it is added at all.

Agreed.

EDIT: One more thing, If 2 guys were a few feet apart with one equipped with a rifle and the other a knife, the guy with the knife has the advantage. Its not too difficult to get inside/past the rifle's long barrel (it's minimum range, so to speak), grab the barrel to keep it pointed away from you, and go stab crazy on vulnerable spots of the other guy's body armor (no armor can be 100% protective and functionally maneuverable). So yeah, knives are still kinda useful in a gun fight.

[Vreki]

Originally Posted by therandomone

Personally, I'm against the rifle bash because I love the feeling of successfully bringing a knife to a gun fight. Sure it is slightly animalistic, but I feel like a goddamn champ when I can pull it off. Also, I think it'd be incredibly stupid to have it not 1-hit kill your opponent because why the hell would you use a knife to begin with then? I seem to be one against the world with having it be a 1-hit kill but again logistically it is easily feasible to kill someone with one hit from a knife and anyone who says otherwise clearly has little to no experience with knives (except for maybe cutting their food). I'll give three simple scenarios to explain why:

Scenario 1: If I'm behind you with a knife.
In this scenario I would knife upwards around the neck towards the skull, in doing so I sever the brain stem. By severing the brain stem you cut off motor function and basic functions like breathing. Outcome: You die.

Scenario 2: If I'm in front of you with a knife.
In this scenario I would thrust my knife through the spaces in your rib cage stabbing the heart (for added fun I give it a little twist and turn). Statistics say IF you receive immediate care (say, from a hospital) you have about a 33% chance of survival,we're on a battlefield and something tells me there are no hospital facilities on Auraxis that you can be carted of to. Outcome: You die.

Universal scenario: I'm in front or behind you with a knife.
There is also a stab that can work from either direction. Simply take the knife and thrust it downward into the soft part of the flesh in between the collar bone on the left side in close proximity of the neck toward the heart (once again, for added fun I can give it a little twist and turn). Once again, it ends up with a knife in your heart. Of course if you wanted to be tricky you could do it from the right side and angle it (though that of course takes a slightly longer blade). Outcome: You die. (Fun fact: this was a favorite of the Romans for execution because when done right you're dead before you hit the ground).

Needless to say, to not have people who are supposed to be soldiers unable to kill someone with a knife in 1 hit is absolutely preposterous. I will say I do support you having to switch to your knife though. If they unfortunately decided to keep the "quick knife", I still suggest they keep the 1-hit kill because it is easily possible and like I explained most plausible to kill someone that way.

I doubt you could do any of those on a corpse, let alone a living human.
Organs etc. are actually pretty well protected, and you seem intent on taking the most indirect route towards the target.

They may bleed to dead, but not before shooting you to pieces.

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

You beg to differ eh? First up, all the quick knife animations I've seen have been slashing, not stabbing. That's why I talked about slashing.

Additionally, a high percentage of people who have been shot in the torso with the Austeyr has died. Combination of the tumbling, fragmenting bullets and the huge amount of energy that gets transferred into the body.
My Staff Sergeant got shot in the arm by an AK47 and lost it at the elbow.

People get knifed in the torso all the time and get stitched up in hospital with just a scar on one side of the body. The VAST majority of them do not die - opposite to the Austeyr.

quick knife should be as damaging as being yelled at, if it is added at all.

My initial response was to guns vs knives in reality. Guns, like knives rely on hitting vital spots on the body to kill (I'm sorry to hear about your Staff Sergeant; but he didn't die, did he?). Gun wounds can bleed out, but not as fast as comparable knife wounds will. A knife is a much larger body and it makes more grevious cuts and tears than small to medium caliber rounds. Bullets are comparatively very small (the steyr fires what? 5.56 NATOs?) and just have a lot of velocity behind them. My point was that if I were in a situation where I had a knife and was within short distance of someone with a gun, I would feel confident enough to take that fight if I needed to; because a gun, especially larger than a handgun, is much less weildy in a melee fight than a knife is and a knife can easily do comparable damage in that scenario.

I think we come from equally informed, but very, very different backgrounds. However, this point doesn't have much to do with the discussion anymore. I'll reiterate my last point. No quick-knifing; knives don't work well in the middle of firefights. they have their place, but it's not in quick-knifing.

[Rago]

Why dont you add a Option for me,if i got a Sword
Melee Stuff is cool.

[MrKWalmsley]

There should be an "other" option, since I would like to see rifle bashing and knife equipping. The rifle bash wouldn't do that much damage, just knock them back a bit maybe, but is capable of killing if you do enough of it. If you want to do some sneaky assassinations, get your knife out and do it properly, as knives would naturally do far more damage than a rifle bash. Perhaps in this case rifle bash could be used to knock friendlies away who are blocking spawns if collision is added between friendlies.

[Hrongar]

They didn't teach us to pull out our knives in close quarters when we had a solid hunk of gun which could bludgeon very well. (bayonet optional etc etc)

Plus you already have the weapon in your hand, the knife needs to be drawn first. So I prefer rifle bash as melee with the option to equip a knife.

And yes putting on a quicklock knife holster etc etc CQC
METAL GEAR!!!!!!

Yes Yes I know

[MrKWalmsley]

Also, now that you mention it, fixed bayonets for those hardcore CQC fighters!

[StumpyTheOzzie]

even hitting someone with the end of the barrel will cause more upset and distress than a "quick-knife"

no quick knife ever.

[Boomhowser]

will tell you my opinion once ive had a chance to test it..

However for those of you saying melee is bad in fps game.. stop being so self righteous.. Many the time in Planetside I had infiltrated an enemy base, I had my rek, I had emp grenades and I had a pistol no spare ammo.. I relied on knife for kills it was silent and the shotgun pistol wasnt...

to those saying 1 hit kills with knife I disagree, should always be an element of danger so killing in 2 Hits is good enough

and quick Knife makes more sense than Baynet or rifle butting as a universal melee attack since everyone could carry one on thier person but not everyone will have rifles..

[Axios]

None of the above. I prefer nutcracker kick to be my quick melee.