News: New TotalBiscuit Video on IMPLANTS

[BlueSkies]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

If that was the case they could just lower the sub fee to $9.99 a month to make more money. Way the cash shop is so successful is because allot of players don't want fair play. They just want to pay to win or pay to skip. Hell if there was a I win button that instant kill anyone within 100 meters radios they would even be happier if they where the only one allowed to have it. Way do you think there are so many players that cheat as soon as they think they wont get caught? For the same reason they just love to pay real money for boosters and what not that will give them an edge in the game. IMO SOE though that if you cant beat them join them, witch is a really bad idea.

PS: If you add up what you pay in F2P games you will find that you pay allot more then $15 a month. So its not because $15 is allot of money.

A) cash shops are so successful because a lot of players either want bling bling for their avatars, or would rather skip the grind. Nothing "not fair" about that.

B) Any game that sold an ability to kill all players within 100 meters, would fail rapidly. The balance of a F2P game is to sell things that paying players want, but won't drive away the free players (note: free players are necessary in a F2P games to make the game feel populated)

C) Nope, don't generally spend more than $15 a month in a F2P game unless I really like the game, and then I am just basically supporting the devs more than anything.

D) If you don't like it, find a different game.

[Syphus]

Originally Posted by Lord Paladin

Also remember that there is another trade-off. I socket one of these boosters, that means I -don't- socket a combat implant.

This isn't true actually. Watch the video, he shows that there is a separate slot for the resource booster.

[Scotsh]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

If that was the case they could just lower the sub fee to $9.99 a month to make more money.

No, because F2P gets way more people to try out the game in the first place.

PS: If you add up what you pay in F2P games you will find that you pay allot more then $15 a month. So its not because $15 is allot of money.

No, i dont. I set a budget and never go over it. Period.


Sorry, this is my last posting answering you. You just dont get it, feel entitled to bonuses because you play more and think thats a good thing.
I hope PS2 has as few players of your type as possible. SOE will not see dime from you either i guess.

[Lord Paladin]

Originally Posted by Scotsh

No, because F2P gets way more people to try out the game in the first place.



No, i dont. I set a budget and never go over it. Period.


Sorry, this is my last posting answering you. You just dont get it, feel entitled to bonuses because you play more and think thats a good thing.
I hope PS2 has as few players of your type as possible. SOE will not see dime from you either i guess.

That might be what you do, but it's not the vast majority of people do not. In the research i've done with devs talking about their cash shops, the number they bring in is over 15 dollars a month. The trick is "monetizing" a higher % of your player base.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by Scotsh

No, because F2P gets way more people to try out the game in the first place.

People don't need to try a game first now when you find some any videos on youtube, live streams on twitch and so on. So you can easily see if you would like the game or not without testing the game first.

Originally Posted by Scotsh

Sorry, this is my last posting answering you. You just dont get it, feel entitled to bonuses because you play more and think thats a good thing.
I hope PS2 has as few players of your type as possible. SOE will not see dime from you either i guess.

It's not I that don't get it. It's you who don't get it. Your believe that I think I should get a bonus because I play more clearly show that.

No one should get any bonuses at all is what I'm saying. All the money you pay for the game should only be for the right to log in to the game and play it and for new content. The rest is up to you what you do in the game.

And noting of what I written in this post have been directed to you only... What made you think that? Sure I reply on your comments but it's for every one to read and comment on. If this was something directed to you personally I would have sent you a PM.

[IgloGlass]

Originally Posted by Lord Paladin

That might be what you do, but it's not the vast majority of people do not. In the research i've done with devs talking about their cash shops, the number they bring in is over 15 dollars a month. The trick is "monetizing" a higher % of your player base.

The thing is that there's no way that can be true. Also, if you've done "research", be prepared to show it, or link your sources otherwise we know that you are lying. Furthermore, alot of people don't spend any money on free to play games, I most certainly don't in most cases, not that I don't have any money to spend, I'm just really conservative with my money.

However, I am prepared to spend money on Planetside 2, not to get a small edge or to pay for advancement, but to support a game that I'll probably love.

But even if I would spend alot of money like this I don't believe that I would spend nearly as much as $15 a month, every month and I know my friends won't do that either.

The reason that free to play games have been so sucessful economically is, as previously stated, because of a larger player-base where not everyone is a paying customer, but only a certain percentage of that player-base is enough because of the sheer amount of players there is.

This is how games like League of Legends are able to profit from releasing content for free. The "vast majority" like you say, frankly don't pay for anything in the game like you say. But once again, however, they might recruit their cousins or whatever and they might be paying customers.

Although this has been really of topic.. On the subject of implants and a 24 hour timer.

I believe for the small change in gameplay and cost that the timer is actually viable. Alot of people hate on it for some reason but it seems to be quite balanced and will probably be more so during beta.

Compared to buying a gun implants actually grant you power that you otherwise wouldn't have for the same resource, however guns grant you permanent versatility and therefore I will not buy alot of implants during my first month or so of playing since I will primarily be stocking up on different guns to use.

Implants being really viable to use every day - instead of let's say every weekend - will in the end boil down to their cost.

Will the extra power granted by implants be balanced with their cost or not?

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by BlueSkies

A) cash shops are so successful because a lot of players either want bling bling for their avatars, or would rather skip the grind. Nothing "not fair" about that.

Yes skipping rather then grinding is unfair. And buying bling bling instead of earning the bling bling just makes the bling bling worthless.

Originally Posted by BlueSkies

B) Any game that sold an ability to kill all players within 100 meters, would fail rapidly. The balance of a F2P game is to sell things that paying players want, but won't drive away the free players (note: free players are necessary in a F2P games to make the game feel populated)

Of course I understand that. I tried to be sarcastic. Sorry for not making that more clear. But I was talking about what some players want and not was what good for the game.

Originally Posted by BlueSkies

C) Nope, don't generally spend more than $15 a month in a F2P game unless I really like the game, and then I am just basically supporting the devs more than anything.

If I don't really like the game I don't play it at all. And how mush money you feel like you need to spend is based more on how mush you play the game and how the cash shop is designed to "force you" to buy.

Originally Posted by BlueSkies

D) If you don't like it, find a different game.

Problem is that only MMOs now a days that dones not have a cash shop is some indy MMOs. So I'm forced to go F2P or stop playing MMOs all to gather. And a F2P game mechanics can for sure be really good. But the cash shop takes out most of the fun of it. I just believe that if you have to play the game to get things in it is so mush more rewarding.

Originally Posted by IgloGlass

This is how games like League of Legends are able to profit from releasing content for free. The "vast majority" like you say, frankly don't pay for anything in the game like you say. But once again, however, they might recruit their cousins or whatever and they might be paying customers.

What do you think the production cost of LoL was? 300 million dollars? No not really. I would be surprised if it was more then 1 million and I would think it was allot less then that.

If you have low production costs you don't need that mush money to make a profit in the first place.

I saw on gamebraker.tv they reported from some news article that on average players spend $50 on F2P games for the duration of the time they play the game. That of course means that allot of players don't spend a dime and some spend hundreds of dollars.

But if you can make players to sub to a game for 3 months you make more money (3x15=60).

But the media have had such an obsession on how many subscribers a game have from month to month that it relay hurts the PR of the game if players gets bored of the game and quit after 3 month.

With F2P games no one cares how mush money they make or how many that played that game as long as the server you play on have a healthy population and the game is fun.

I can see that is a major reasons way so many games goes F2P just to avoid all the bad PR you get from all the idiots that only care if a game have more subscribers then WoW or not.

[BlueSkies]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Yes skipping rather then grinding is unfair. And buying bling bling instead of earning the bling bling just makes the bling bling worthless.

if you say so...

If I don't really like the game I don't play it at all. And how mush money you feel like you need to spend is based more on how mush you play the game and how the cash shop is designed to "force you" to buy.

No one is going to force you to buy zebra camo or XP boosters...

I saw on gamebraker.tv they reported from some news article that on average players spend $50 on F2P games for the duration of the time they play the game. That of course means that allot of players don't spend a dime and some spend hundreds of dollars.

But if you can make players to sub to a game for 3 months you make more money (3x15=60).

Planetside 1 demonstrated nicely that FPS players, unlike RPG players, are not into monthly subscriptions just to play the game (and actually even the RPG players aren't fans anymore).

Oh... and 3x15=45 , not 60

[Lord Paladin]

Originally Posted by IgloGlass

The thing is that there's no way that can be true. Also, if you've done "research", be prepared to show it, or link your sources otherwise we know that you are lying. Furthermore, alot of people don't spend any money on free to play games, I most certainly don't in most cases, not that I don't have any money to spend, I'm just really conservative with my money.

However, I am prepared to spend money on Planetside 2, not to get a small edge or to pay for advancement, but to support a game that I'll probably love.

But even if I would spend alot of money like this I don't believe that I would spend nearly as much as $15 a month, every month and I know my friends won't do that either.

The reason that free to play games have been so sucessful economically is, as previously stated, because of a larger player-base where not everyone is a paying customer, but only a certain percentage of that player-base is enough because of the sheer amount of players there is.

This is how games like League of Legends are able to profit from releasing content for free. The "vast majority" like you say, frankly don't pay for anything in the game like you say. But once again, however, they might recruit their cousins or whatever and they might be paying customers.

Although this has been really of topic.. On the subject of implants and a 24 hour timer.

I believe for the small change in gameplay and cost that the timer is actually viable. Alot of people hate on it for some reason but it seems to be quite balanced and will probably be more so during beta.

Compared to buying a gun implants actually grant you power that you otherwise wouldn't have for the same resource, however guns grant you permanent versatility and therefore I will not buy alot of implants during my first month or so of playing since I will primarily be stocking up on different guns to use.

Implants being really viable to use every day - instead of let's say every weekend - will in the end boil down to their cost.

Will the extra power granted by implants be balanced with their cost or not?

As soon as I posted that, I tried looking for sources. Unfortunately this proprietary data that you won't find in an interview. However, I've been fortunate enough to go to trade shows and received special access due to media standing.

I do believe there are some videos online from a conference held in Texas this last year, but it's gonna take me a while when I'm not at work to find the right one.

I know my credibility online doesn't exist, however the issues you're listing is only part of the equation.

As an anecdotal example, for a while I was playing Lords of Ultima. It's free to play, pay to win.

For about 3 months, I didn't give them a dollar, but I continued along, content and plugging away at my growing empire with a small group of friends. At some point, however, I became a nice juicy target.

All the sudden some larger, more established player started sieging my cities, and my defenses were rapidly crumbling. Well, I didn't want this to happen, so I spent a few bucks for instant resources, and a few bucks more for a power that cuts down the training time for troops. Not a whole lot, but it "burst my cherry" for spending real dollars. After that, when I had some free time, but nothing to do, I dropped a couple dollars to grease the wheels. My growth in the game expanded rapidly (far beyond the scope of what planetside is doing. We're talking taking something from days (plural) to hours). Then that jerk who tried to kick my ass came back. This time he brought friends. Things were going worse than the first time time. All in all, I probably blew about 50 dollars (just doing 5-7 dollar transactions) in a week to a week and a half.

I had put all that time, energy, and effort (as well as some money now) into my empire. I was going to be damned if someone was going to ruin all of that.

In the end, I was able to hold him an his buddies off (through pay to win, as well as some diplomacy on my part). And in the end, EA got more money out of me than if I had paid 15 dollars a month.

Now I completely agree with you about spending money. I have no idea spending money to support a free game that I love. I think that's a good thing. I chastise my friends if they pirate a good game, because we need to support good ones with our money so they will make more (and to reward devs for doing a good job). However, we are not the majority.

I just noticed the other day that Zynga's "Sims" ripoff has 46 million people activate it on their facebook page. Zynga is notorious for having terrible monitization of its sub base (meaning maybe only 5% (i don't remember the exact percent) of those people actually give them money). For them, this still means more people than planetside 2 will ever see play it. Which means that that 5% of people needs to spend enough money to make the game fiscally sound for Zynga to continue. (This is what you and many others are talking about). Now 4% of that 5% are probably people that drop a couple bucks here and there, and the remaining people are the growing 1% which have been conditioned that this is okay, and continue to spend a couple bucks a week PLUS purchasing whatever new stuff Zynga comes out with.

The trick here is that it seems once people "spend money" once, they're more likely to spend it again. Once they have their information in the system for the first time, the mental barrier to hitting that "purchase" button becomes easier and easier.

Here's another anecdotal example.

Take your average person's accounting. For the vast majority of the unwashed masses (those who the government's own accounting is large than 50% in large credit card debt) the spending which gets the most out of control is the day-to-day small transactions (I'm guilty of this myself). The "buying lunch every day for 5 dollars" or the "getting coffee every day on the way to work" plus the "pack of gum from the gas station" type expenses. This has become a larger issue due to the rise in check-card/credit-card usage. People "lose track" of all of these small transactions they're making, and which often times add up to hundreds of dollars a month.

It's not a very different phenomena with free-to-play games. In league of legends, you play with the free stuff. Then you buy your first 1 or 2 characters. Then you buy 3 or 4 the next time. Then you buy this that or the other thing. And next thing you know, every time they release new content, you're buying something from it.

It's a gradual slide, but in the end, the successful companies are able to monetize more than 15 dollars a month out of players. The more players they have, the monetized players they have. So it's a little of column A and a little of column B. They don't monetize everyone, but the ones that they do tend to spend more.

I hope this wall of text made sense to anyone who actually read it.

tl;dr @ IgloGlass - I concede a few points to you, but submit that the situation is more complex than you're making it out to be.

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Yes skipping rather then grinding is unfair. And buying bling bling instead of earning the bling bling just makes the bling bling worthless.

No, it's not. Time is money. You either pay with time, or you pay with money. Some people can't pay with time. You're investing in the game either way. I just measure my opportunity cost.

[Otleaz]

Originally Posted by Lord Paladin

No, it's not. Time is money. You either pay with time, or you pay with money. Some people can't pay with time. You're investing in the game either way. I just measure my opportunity cost.

That is fair enough, but why make it so people are at a disadvantage because of it? Most other popular PvP F2P games avoid systems where people who play more are more powerful. They focus on letting players unlock more options, rather than power increases.

[Lord Paladin]

Originally Posted by Otleaz

That is fair enough, but why make it so people are at a disadvantage because of it? Most other popular PvP F2P games avoid systems where people who play more are more powerful. They focus on letting players unlock more options, rather than power increases.

But these implants -aren't- making you more powerful. That's why so many people are saying they're fine as is. a .25 second increase to your reload is an edge, not an advantage.

[Salad Snake]

Originally Posted by Otleaz

You are taking things way too black and white. Also, care to explain how auraxium is player driven at all? I have a hunch you meant that they can capture auraxium facilities to increase generation, but I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I was under that impression, yes. If that is not the case then I concede you that point. Also, that is a black & white argument, but only in response to your own.

[Otleaz]

Originally Posted by Lord Paladin

But these implants -aren't- making you more powerful. That's why so many people are saying they're fine as is. a .25 second increase to your reload is an edge, not an advantage.

Are you from the twilight zone or something?

Originally Posted by Salad Snake

I was under that impression, yes. If that is not the case then I concede you that point. Also, that is a black & white argument, but only in response to your own.

You are correct, I feel a bit silly for getting hypocritical there. Reading back, my argument was very black and white.

To try and explain better, I would like to lay out that I feel there is a line that should not be crossed. Bullet deviation and crits(while unfair), are something everyone needs to deal with so they make it by the skin of their teeth.

One person being flat out more powerful than another is not only completely unnecessary, it is going way too far.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Originally Posted by Nathaniak

Maybe have an 'auto-renew' toggle for the implants, so that you don't have to worry about checking that they're still active. If it's 24h real-time though, it would have to only do it when you're online - i.e. if the time runs out when you're online, it automatically buys a new implant. If it runs out when you're offline, it buys a new one only when you next log on.

Oh please devs, make an auto-renew.

Also, I love the idea of them being "in-your pocket" even if they do still count down their timers.

If I'm playing as a HA, I'll want "Implant set 1" and when I'm playing as a medic or engineer, I'll want "implant set 2"

I hope implants are part of the resupply loadout for each class.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Yeah, but that sucks.

If I'm playing medic I'll need fast switching and reload speed more than I would as HA. (100 round mags and I don't have reloaditis). So my HA can get that one where your weapons are used faster after sprinting instead.

At high BR, I'll get all 3. But at low BR, I'd like to change implants based on which class I'm playing and it'd be sweet if it was part of the custom loadout; no different to the scope on my rifle or flash suppressor etc etc.