LLU Discussion - Page 2

Endless · 2003-08-10, 03:27 AM

I have yet to try it so I can't give my opinion on it just yet. But all you people who say you're tired of sitting in the soi waiting for the hack exp, I laugh at. Yeah, there needs to be some people defending, but once the fighting is done, you no longer need to be there to get the exp. It seems as if alot of people fail to knw this.

CrazyCrazy · 2003-08-10, 04:09 AM

Well I haven't tried it yet either, but I am tomorrow. As far as all your statements about bugs you have to remember, IT IS A TEST SERVER. The whole reason for putting it on test is to work out the bugs, kinks, and minor adjustments before it gets into the official servers. and the amount of people on the test server will not compare to what we will see in the real game, which adds a whole different dynamic. Either way, I'm glad they put this in. You have to keep the game fresh, otherwise it gets to be routine and boring. This is exactly what they are doing.

Doppler · 2003-08-10, 05:59 AM

This will make defense even harder, you just got your ass kicke,d the enemy is most likely zerging you, they all have lashers and magriders (yes i'm biased but I play on johari where there is more VS on at some times of the morning then NC and TR combined. Now you have to not just try and chase them down, but get ahead of them to set up an ambush, I got an idea, lets put in all the fratures we've been promising since way back in the day (loadmaster, platoons, better tactical refinements) then work on some new idea that is going to fuck with the established gameplay model that most people will agree works.

MrVulcan · 2003-08-10, 09:11 AM

I have yet to test it (getting patch now)

however......

"The defenders will have two options for resecuring the base. Either stop the carrier from reaching the destination COntrol Console or make their way into their own CC room to resecure, just like the current model."

well that sorta defeats the entire thing dosnt it?

What reason do the defenders have for running after it, all they have to do is get to the cc?

so..... we went from people sitting in a base... to .. futile running around unless base is 100% secure by many people sitting in the base waiting.... *so we are now forced to wait in the base, insted of just going to the next one*

ok... im confused on why this would be better.....

Kuraltai · 2003-08-10, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Doppler
This will make defense even harder, you just got your ass kicke,d the enemy is most likely zerging you, they all have lashers and magriders (yes i'm biased but I play on johari where there is more VS on at some times of the morning then NC and TR combined. Now you have to not just try and chase them down, but get ahead of them to set up an ambush, I got an idea, lets put in all the fratures we've been promising since way back in the day (loadmaster, platoons, better tactical refinements) then work on some new idea that is going to fuck with the established gameplay model that most people will agree works.

I agree with you about the VS population on Johari .. I'd much rather face a Jackhammer noob NC than the Lasher any day!

I haven't tried the LLU setup yet, hopefully tomorrow, but the idea does sound promising for a change in capture process, especially empty bases.

I would like to see the base benefits online soon. Platoons and tactical refinements would greatly benefit the LLU style of capture. Have they introduced any of this on the test server?

MilitantB0B · 2003-08-10, 01:01 PM

People keep saying that this will bring battles out of the SOI, and although that is a great thing for gameplay, it is a bad thing for XP. I know the game isn't about XP, but about killin, but still, how do they plan to supplement the fact that the enemy isn't in the SOI but chasing your runners.

EDIT: just to add a wish that the devs make bases more defensible like they said they would.

/em waits.

snypz · 2003-08-10, 10:36 PM

what ppl r gonna start doin is takin the LLU and gettin in there little misquto and fly away over the ocean so that no one can get him unless they shoot him down, u all know that's gonna happen a few times

Madcow · 2003-08-11, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by snypz
what ppl r gonna start doin is takin the LLU and gettin in there little misquto and fly away over the ocean so that no one can get him unless they shoot him down, u all know that's gonna happen a few times

You can't drive a vehicle, only be a passenger. Looks like this will get people certing in lib or gal a lot more, makes a lot more sense to take to the air rather than facing all the ground troops as well as all the air vehicles plus you don't have to deal with terrain.

CrazyCrazy · 2003-08-11, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by snypz
what ppl r gonna start doin is takin the LLU and gettin in there little misquto and fly away over the ocean so that no one can get him unless they shoot him down, u all know that's gonna happen a few times

If you read the notes, you will see that the LLU carrier cannot drive any vehicle, and cannot even board an aircraft.

Anyways, I tried it it now. It has some potential, but the current design has major issues that would be horrible if put in the real server (not just talking about bugs).

Overall, it is far too difficult for the hacking empire to get the base, and far too easy for the defenders to stop the hack. The defenders basically have two options. One is to attack the base, and resecure the CC as normal. The second is to stop the LLU from getting to its target in the time limit. The only option for the hacking side, is to get the LLU to the target CC in a fixed time limit.

Basically this means, the hacking side MUST split their forces up, while the defender's can can either zerg the hacked base, camp at the target base, or chase the LLU carrier down and surround the LLU once its dropped. Since everyone gets the message of where the target base is as soon as it is hacked, the second option would be the easiest. The only way the hacking side can win is if they have triple the numbers of the defending side. They would need one group to defend the hacked cc, one to defend the target base, and one to escort the LLU carrier.

Oh did I also mention, if the target base goes neutral, you lose the hack instantly? I don't know what happens if the hacked base goes netral, but this is a huge problem.

I think they need to make several changes to this system in order to make it reasonable. Here a few:

1) remove the defender's ability to resecure the base by simply hacking the cc. Replace it with the ability to pick up the LLU, and return in to the hacked cc, within the same time limit as is required for the hacking side to get it to the target. All the same rules for the LLU carrier should apply. This would make it closer to true CTF, and probably a lot more fun.

2) increase the time limit. 10 minutes is not nearly enough, considering you have to find the stupid thing first, move slower, are glowing, flash on the radar, cannot use air transportation, and cannot drive your own vehicle, and you have to fight your way across terrain, get into the target base and get to its cc. It should be 25 minutes, or vary based on the distance of the target base.

3) Do not make the LLU randomly spawn somewhere in the base. It should be at a fixed locaiton in the cc room, and should appear as soon as the cc is hacked.

4) reduce the amount of bases that use the LLU system. I was on hossin, and it appeared that all the interlink facilites, bio labs, and tech plants were LLU bases. It should just be interlink facilties and tech plants, or maybe even just one or the other. Even with the other changes I suggested, capturing an LLU base is far more challenging than it is to resecure it. Therefore, it should only represent a few bases on each continent. I choose these two becuase technology plants are the most desired bases, and should be more challenging to capture. Interlink facilities just make sense to use an LLU.

5) If either the hacked base, or target base go neutral, instead of it automatically stopping the hack, the LLU carrier should not be able to insert it at the target base until it is refilled ( or if the hacked base is the neutral one, that must be refilled first). If either base is not resuppied within that time limit, the hack doesn't go thru. Since the LLU carrier must still deal will the time limit, I think this is reasonable.

6) Fix my station account to work corrcectly on the forums so I can put this on the official forum, self bump it, and bug the hell out of sporkfire.

//edit

I forgot to add that this feature hasn't been included yet:

"The friendly facility that the carrier has to take the LLU back to is one that is one lattice link away and secure at the time. If there are no secure friendly facilities at the time, then the base will not be an LLU base, but will use the current Hack and Hold."

//edit again

Right now, LLU facilites appear to be fixed, although I don't know what hapeens when one goes neutral.

I don't think they should implement the above feuature, since it would still allow you to go behind enemy lines, drain an LLU base to neutral, and since you have no linked friendly facilites, it would convert to a normal base. If you took my #4 suggestioon, and then also kept LLU bses fixed, it would limit the selction bse drainers could choose from.

I also think they need to change the way matrixing panels repair and drain NTU at such a fast rate, and also put in base-lattice bonuses, before putting the LLU system into effect.

Ignore Me · 2003-08-11, 01:25 AM

well you can't say your final thoughts until its actually in the game because otherwise they are still testing it and can change anything about it whenever they want.

CrazyCrazy · 2003-08-11, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by JF-Wolf
well you can't say your final thoughts until its actually in the game because otherwise they are still testing it and can change anything about it whenever they want.

True, but in order for the devs to change it BEFORE it becomes official, it wil require input from the people who tried it in test. That's part of the reason why they have a public test server.

noxious · 2003-08-11, 02:24 AM

I must say I'm rather curious. I think 9 times out of 10 the defenders will rescure CC as opposed to chase down LLU. I do think there are more pressing matters the dev team should be dealing with.

MuadDib · 2003-08-11, 03:48 AM

Originally posted by MilitantB0B
People keep saying that this will bring battles out of the SOI, and although that is a great thing for gameplay, it is a bad thing for XP. I know the game isn't about XP, but about killin, but still, how do they plan to supplement the fact that the enemy isn't in the SOI but chasing your runners.

The LLU Unit projects a small SOI around it on Test that counts the battle around it in addition to the fighting at the base SOI. So the devs I think have covered. I think the SOI of the LLU needs to be increased for the ZOI idea implamented.

Doppler · 2003-08-11, 07:49 AM

Personaly crazy, I'm all for the defenders having more power. Defenders should always have the home gorund advantage, if this gives them that it ill be one relatively bright spot in an overall somewhat bleak outlook.

CrazyCrazy · 2003-08-11, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by Doppler
Personaly crazy, I'm all for the defenders having more power. Defenders should always have the home gorund advantage, if this gives them that it ill be one relatively bright spot in an overall somewhat bleak outlook.

The home field advantage has some benefits, but the way its set up now, the only way for the attacking army to win is to have 3X the size of the army as the defenders, which just means more zerging, and less strategy. It still doesn't affect homefield advantage as far as continents are concerned, only bases. Actually it makes thing worse.

Think about it. It still relatively easy for someone to go to an empty continet and cap an LLU base, or get on in the wee hours when no one is on. Now, that LLU you worked so hard for to cap a few hours ago, was taken away by a 2-man team when no one was on, and you have to go thru it all over again.

This will make things especially tough on NC, since their home continents are the most popular places to go. Imagine having to run a LLU form base to base in ceryshen. No air tranpsotation allowed, remember. It will become even less popular to go to than it is now. TR will basically hold onto ceryshen indefinitely, and NC will be kept defending their home turf over and over again.

I'm not totally against the LLU idea, I just think what they have now is far too unbalanced in favor of the defenders. Even with the changes I proposed, The defenders still the option to camp the target base, chase the carrier down, or make one of the bases go neutral, and prevent an ant from getting there in time. The hacker still only has the option of getting the LLU to the target base in a fixed time limit. I didn't suggest any changes to the restricitons the LLU carrier has either. I didn't take away home field advantage, I just suggested it be more reasonable.

Please try it out on the test server and then give a more thoughtful response.