Require LOS with the Phoenix? - Page 2

Dharkbayne · 2004-02-19, 05:34 PM

I've never tried it, but I hear the pheonix royally sucks VS air

TheN00b · 2004-02-19, 05:42 PM

Sortof. You're right that the Pheonix blows against good air, but bad air is a different story. If a pilot is good, he'll do sweeping runs against Pheonix's, always moving and suppressing with MG's until good rocket-spamming range is acchieved, and then the Pheonix user(s) is/are fucked. But if the pilot is bad, then he's more likely to turret, which makes him the perfect target for us: even if he realizes his mistake, there'll already be missiles inbound, and even an aircraft's accel will be too slow to escape.

MidnightDave · 2004-02-19, 05:47 PM

example of bad air

Mosquito hover strafing back and forth behind a bunker shooting us, I arm deci, fire, take him down. I loved that I got something like 1500 xp for that one kill. He started to send me hate tells, finally had to put him on ignore. lol

Mudflap · 2004-02-19, 05:48 PM

1 air unit + 1 pheonix user = dead pheonix user......easily.

The pheonix is the slowest TTK AV weapon there is. No LOS is its only advantage, and it adds the disadvantage of being cloaker/sniper bait. The Pheonix is just fun, so you'll see alot of people using it. That's the only real reason you see so many pheonix kills.

TheN00b · 2004-02-19, 05:55 PM

Mudflap, your equation is correct, but this one is far more relevant :

1 Hovering Air Unit+20 Pheonix Users=Charred Aircraft Hulk

Thats what was happening last night.

HawkEye · 2004-02-19, 06:13 PM

I'd like to see the Phoenix missiles require a constant LOS back to the launcher, and will lose their homing

phoenix dosent have homing capabilities it is camera guidied, that is the person whop fires it steers it so thats why it goes around tries and shit like that.

prbountyhunter · 2004-02-19, 10:07 PM

All the NC have to do is complain about how they can't fly over a base without getting a lock on from about 400000000000 billion million strikers, and not stop complaining about it until the devs nerf it.

Come on NC take a hint from the whiners and start complaining. I used to do it when I was 5 and it worked all the time

Lithpope · 2004-02-19, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by prbountyhunter

All the NC have to do is complain about how they can't fly over a base without getting a lock on from about 400000000000 billion million strikers, and not stop complaining about it until the devs nerf it.

Come on NC take a hint from the whiners and start complaining. I used to do it when I was 5 and it worked all the time

That is assuming the damn things actually lock and all 400000000000 of them are not all bugged at the same time

shaizan · 2004-02-20, 12:31 AM

What a Phoenix can do is fairly nuts. No matter what the TTK is is not relevent under recent circumstances. Those circumstances being that there are a legion of Phoenix users out there. Therefore, the TTK seems worse than it is. I do not think adjustments need to be made in this regard.

I am quite tired of being sniped on foot by the bloody things. It is somewhat like the Lancer when it's AI damage was out of wack. I am of the opinion that the AI damage potential of the Phoenix needs to be looked at. It is quite frustrating to get hit repeatedly and not have a blessed clue who/where the God forsaken NC Acarchist is.

It was said earlier, and I agree...the Phoenix is the king of AV. As a result few things bring me more happiness in PS than stabbing an in flight Phoenix user with my knife in an infil suit, or AMPing them to death. I know that some friendly on the other side is likely going to live to fight another day.

Happy lil Elf · 2004-02-20, 01:00 AM

1 Hovering Air Unit+20 Pheonix Users=Charred Aircraft Hulk

If you hover while there are enemy around who have AV weapons, you deserve to die. Your equation works equally if the person shooting is using the Lancer, the Striker or even the Decimator in place of the Phoenix.

Bad argument.

It was said earlier, and I agree...the Phoenix is the king of AV.

No, that would be the Decimator, but thanks for playing! Why the decimator? Because the Deci performs where it's important: Inside bases. Outdoors is all gravy. No AV weapon kills infantry or Vehicles nearly as well as Vehicles do.

But for the sake of this idiotic argument, lets talk about outdoors. The Striker is the king of AA, there's no argument here. The Pheonix works great against MAXs outdoors, but then so does the Striker. With multiple users who know what they're doing the Pheonix can also put the hurt on tanks too, of course so can the Striker or Lancer. I will agree that the Lancer is the biggest pain in the ass to use effectively out of the three but with some practice it competes very well against both of it's counterparts.

Yes you can snipe with a Pheonix, of course it's not effective, wastes a ton of ammo and, in general, is just plain a stupid thing to do. So, personally? I couldn't care less if they nerfed the AI damage to do a max of 1 health, maybe the the morons trying to snipe people with it would do something productive. Be glad those idiots are shooting Pheonix missiles at you. If they were actually shooting you with something that did damage you might be in trouble.

Lithpope · 2004-02-20, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Happy lil' Elf

Yes you can snipe with a Pheonix, of course it's not effective, wastes a ton of ammo and, in general, is just plain a stupid thing to do. So, personally? I couldn't care less if they nerfed the AI damage to do a max of 1 health, maybe the the morons trying to snipe people with it would do something productive. Be glad those idiots are shooting Pheonix missiles at you. If they were actually shooting you with something that did damage you might be in trouble.

Amen to that lil' Elf.

As a side note, I think those swarms of Phoenix's were hitting infantry due to a lack of vehicle targets. That said I had a grand ole time last night DRIVING through a swarm of Phoenix users in my Marauder, they had a hella time hitting my Marauder at 76kph and some defensive driving, on top of that my gunning crew had a blast laying waste to all those Phoenix users while they were motionless and guiding thier missles.

I think empire buggies have thier niche in the field now, clear the infantry for the areal armor.

Just my opinion.

UncleDynamite · 2004-02-20, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by dscytherulez

In case you haven't noticed, phoenix NEEDS to be able to hide. One shot, then reload...not to mention you are completely open to attack from cloakers and the like while you're guiding the missle.

The no LOS is the only thing that makes the phoenix worth using. Stop complaining.

This is very true. Exposed Phoenix users are easy, easy targets. Being TR, I'm actually not all that concerned about Phoenixs as long as I'm not in a slow vehicle, because sniping with them are (as some people here have noted) pretty silly. I've always felt the clump of Phoenix users behind a hill wasn't a case of unfairness, but simply as a tactical challenge the TR (or VS) have to meet.

Dharkbayne · 2004-02-20, 02:51 AM

Indeed. Counter Pheonix users by FLANKING them, if you are out of their FoV, just wait till they fire, and shoot them, they won't have time to shoot back.

BadAsh · 2004-02-20, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by Happy lil' Elf

No, that would be the Decimator, but thanks for playing! Why the decimator? Because the Deci performs where it's important: Inside bases. Outdoors is all gravy. No AV weapon kills infantry or Vehicles nearly as well as Vehicles do.

But for the sake of this idiotic argument, lets talk about outdoors. The Striker is the king of AA, there's no argument here. The Pheonix works great against MAXs outdoors, but then so does the Striker. With multiple users who know what they're doing the Pheonix can also put the hurt on tanks too, of course so can the Striker or Lancer. I will agree that the Lancer is the biggest pain in the ass to use effectively out of the three but with some practice it competes very well against both of it's counterparts.

Yes you can snipe with a Pheonix, of course it's not effective, wastes a ton of ammo and, in general, is just plain a stupid thing to do. So, personally? I couldn't care less if they nerfed the AI damage to do a max of 1 health, maybe the the morons trying to snipe people with it would do something productive. Be glad those idiots are shooting Pheonix missiles at you. If they were actually shooting you with something that did damage you might be in trouble.

You are missing the major strength of the Phoenix: The ability to hit targets that are not in line of sight.

This is crucial and what makes the Phoenix the KING of all AV, because it then becomes so much more than just another AV weapon...

The Striker is:
Outdoor Anti-Air
Outdoor Anti-MAX (only MAX units in the open, it won't lock on when they are near structures, etc.)
Indoor Joke (no really, no indoor lock-on and it's dumb fire has a horrific COF, so its more than useless indoors)

The Lancer is:
Anti-Vehicle (LOS Only)
Anti-MAX (unique "MAX Sniper" status, pretty nice but still LOS)

The Phoenix is:
Outdoor Anti-MAX (even in the CY of a base! Walls are no protection!)
Indoor Anti-MAX (dumb fire mode is sweet and it's a 3 shot MAX killer!)
Outdoor Anti-Light Vehicle
Outdoor Heavy Vehicle Harrasser
Outdoor Infantry harrassment weapon (and *sniper bane)
Vehicle Pad Destroyer (ultra critical in a seige)
CY AMS Destroyer (ultra critical in a seige)

So during a base seige...

A Striker can help with AA duties, pester other vehicles, and kill MAX units that stray into open areas. Nice weapon.

A Lancer can snipe at MAX units, Aircraft, and Vehicles that are in it's LOS. Nice weapon.

A Phoenix can destroy any MAX above ground, clear the CY of AMS units, destroy light vehicles, harrass heavy vehicles, harrass infantry, disable (and keep it disabled)the vehicle terminal... Godly Weapon!

Never underestimate the power of a weapon that lets you attack an oppenent who can't return the attack... The phoenix allows you to fire from 100% cover... for **no risk killing...

*Sniper Bane: Use this tactic with the Phoenix if you get sniped once. Move behind 100% cover and heal yourself. Fire a "scout" shot or two to locate the sniper and then start hitting him. 4 hits kills infantry... so now the sniper is forced to run or die.

**No Risk Killing: Not really 100% true, but with careful positioning you can fire from a secure location. Use an AMS and deployables to defend your position. Mines, spitfires, and motion sensors can guard your location and you can fire from within the cloaking bubble and guide your missiles home! Try firing from the opposite side of a tower roof for protection. During a seige when we have the base tower I get in the roof on the opposite side facing away from the base. From there I can hit anything in the base except people on the opposite side base wall.

Place a dedicated Phoenix squad there or inside the cloaking bubble of a nearby AMS and rain down some major pain. The enemy will lose any MAX that ventures outside, their vehicle terminal, the AMS they tried to hide under the catwalk in the CY, all of their spitfire turrets, vehicles trying to get repairs will get pounded, aircraft slowing down to use the repair/rearm pads will get owned, and the thumper guys and snipers on the walls can't get cover so they can run inside and hide with the MAX units or they can die.

No other AV comes close to this complete base domination capability that a handfull of dedicated Phoenix users can deal out. The Phoenix is KING.

"Hail to the King baby!"

EDIT: Oh, yeah, the Wall Turrets are Phoenix bait too... Strikers and Lancers can be shot by the turret they are attacking... the Phoenix can get full cover and kill at will... A Squad will kill the turret in 1 volley...

Krinsath · 2004-02-20, 08:35 AM

The Phoenix is not the end all super killer. Even driving my little Lightning, I worry more about Lancers than I do Phoenixes. Sure, a swarm of Phoenix missiles is a frightening thing, but I do believe it sends a message...

"Don't Drive Vehicles Here"

If there are 60 AV troopers in the area, I don't care what empire it is...you're an idiot for bringing in a vehicle...unless you're bringing 60 of them. Armor will lose to dug-in, prepared infantry. Been a rule of warfare since the tank's inception. The strength of armor is in not going in the teeth of the enemy, but moving AROUND the enemy and attacking less protected flanks (ask the French about their Maginot Line, which was a quite formiddable fortress, except the German armor just went AROUND it).

If you see a whole bunch of Phoenix missiles and you can't muster the vehicles to counter it, get an infiltration suit and go to town killing these Phoenix users...or get a sniper rifle and flank and rack up 30+ kills from the defenseless missile users.

Yes, your tanks will be useless...that's why the cert is called "Anti-Vehicle", nice to see it actually do it's job for once.

The Phoenix in particular is not a big problem. Find cover that hides your position from the missiles. For instance, parking directly next to the walls of a base makes it well-nigh impossible to be hit unless they have LOS to you (in which case you're screwed anyway). Rare are the Phoenix users who can get the missile to dive down correctly before you've repaired and moved on....but again, if you see that many missiles, you're better off grabbing a rifle instead of a tank...I know you won't feel special anymore since you don't have your big armored tank, but believe me, you will survive.