I have a simple fix for getting rid of TKers...

[SilverLord]

I haven't seen you guys in ages...

[Firefly]

I agree that quitting is childish. That's why I propose the BOYCOTT THE VANU! alternative. I'm not the only one that feels that way, which means I am justified in feeling the way I do.

I have always complained about the Lasher and its lack of friendly-fire grief. No other weapon boasts that ability, and if it were a standard clause for the VS empire as a major technology (not being able to kill friendlies in battle is a serious boon) and were in all their weapons, then sure. But that gives the Lasher two special features. One, it lashes out at anything along its trajectory. Bad enough, but fair enough. But then it also does not kill friendlies. That makes two.

I have always complained about empire-swappers. Give me loyal troops who want to kick the shit out of the enemy and we've got an unstoppable force. Introduce the ability to go turn around and play someone else that is winning easily, and you've introduced a new element that makes loyalty and comradeship available only amongst the troops who want to play that way. I am one of them, and I will surround myself with like-minded individuals to preclude the chance of one of my battle buddies turning tail and coming back with his VS or NC that knows exactly where I am.

You're fucking crazy if you think the Lasher is not over-balanced right now. Anyone who denies this is simply deluding themselves to make up for whatever inadequacies they feel as a player. When suddenly the VS populations grow to ten percent the size of the other two empires, and as a result everyone wearing teal and purple have a Lasher, then you're denying it to try and justify your winning. If you have to justify winning, then you earned a cheap win and you have subconscious guilt for it.

I don't care what the justification for No-lashing is. I don't roleplay in FPS and I don't play SWG. Tell the story to someone else. If it were a big technological advance it'd be on other Vanu weapons if they cared about backstories and all that garbage.

I could care less about NC and VS double-teaming. When the populations are balanced, there aren't traitor cowards hopping around to different empires, and when the Vanu don't have an impressive weapon in the hands of an overstrength population, then the pops are balanced and we can double-team and tag-team cornhole-roger each other all day. If it's VS and NC versus TR during that time, so what. The population caps don't mean jack to me, except that when the three major battle grounds are locked out, the excess is going elsewhere- meaning, the side who has an undeniable advantage in terms of numbers is going to dominate. That's fine- I play TR because I play the game on Hard. But come on- why are you going to sit there and say "Hey NC, the TR are getting smoked by the Vanu on three continents, let's go join them!" Why not take the tactical and strategic road and steal THEIR turf? They have more players than you- do you really want to be sitting there fighting over TR lands with the VS, when they can now apply their dominant forces to your backyards? It's self-destruction, because now you're going to get the shit end of the stick.

I'm not refusing a challenge. That's not a challenge, it's slaughter. I don't pay for this game and all the things I need to play it, to get pissed off at this shit. It ceases to be a challenge when fifty Lashers can take out an entire army. That's just bullshit, and I'm not going to increase my respawn by five seconds every time I die so that in five minutes it takes me an hour to respawn. That's gay as hell and I won't pay for that sort of "fun".

I'll take my fight to the NC, and if the Vanu show up that isn't my fault. That means they're coming for the NC and sooner or later the NC will *HAVE* to fight the Vanu... ironic since they've been butt buddies the entire time.

I can't justify why TR was on Cyssor with the Vanu, when we couldn't take Forseral, Ishundar and Ceryshen. I don't like playing home defense, but when we have two bases total? I'll be on Home-D. So thus I fail to understand what moron was fighting it up on Cyssor when we can't even hold a handful of bases on one of three bases. And my fellow commanders were wondering the same thing last night, when we had a handful of bases on four different continents.

THAT is what prompted me to come up with BOYCOTT THE VANU! Because I am sick and tired of being pinched between the Vanu and the NC. Call me a bitch, call me a whiner. My views on complaining are this: cry and moan about the problem, or do something about it. Don't point out the problems if you don't have a solution.

This is my solution. I pay for this game, I play this game to have fun. I pay for fun. So I am taking my fun to strictly-NC areas. If that makes me a lamer or a crybaby or a child, so be it. I'll be living it up having fun where there are no Lashers, relishing in the oceanfront view from whatever formerly-blue base I was just at.

[SecondRaven]

We need Freindly Fire by far, if we did not have it then you would be seeing tank shells spaming everywhere with no reguard to people

[BadAsh]

FF is important and it needs to stay or the game will be come plasma and vehicle weapon spam combat.

As for the lasher...

Am I the only one finding this whole thing amusing? Where were the "buff the VS" rants when the VS clearly had the worst pistol, MA, and HA.... AND consistantly the lowest population?

Personally I feel the buffed Lasher is mostly hype anyway. The main problem with it is that it's the only useful weapon the VS have other than the Sweeper. Of the two which just got buffed and what just got nerfed? So right there tells you what people will use. Also, the Lasher is as good as the MCG and almost as good as the JH now, so it's like a new toy. Many people will flock to what's new and so there you have it in a nutshell.

Why do you die to lashers more now? Two reasons:

1. Population shift from NC-TR-VS to VS-NC-TR
2. With no viable alternative the VS hordes tote the Lasher.

So when you attack that tower where there used to be 2 guys with lashers there are now 4. Your getting owned by a Lasher odds just doubled for that reason alone.

I got a TR and NC character to BR20 and so started a VS character before the announcement or implimentation of the new buffs. I was about BR15 or 16 when it happened and honestly it's not that much more effective. The CQB lashing is OK and the 5 extra shots per clip are nice, but my kill rate is about the same. No dramatic increase. Good MCG, JH, Gauss, Cycler, and Sweeper users can still take me down depending on whom got the jump on whom...

And when playing NC and TR I still pretty much own lasher users as I did before especially when it's 1v1 or 2v1. Usually now it's more than that... because now you see 8 Lashers defending a back door to a base, where before it was always 3-4. 8 is MUCH harder.

Side note:

Of the 3 HA I like the Lasher the best even before the minor buff it got. It's be best at suppression fire, it's got a minor splash damage type effect, it's the best anti-max HA because you don't have to carry/change ammo types, and it's the best anti-SpitFire HA. Trying to kill a Spit with the MCG or JH will get ya killed. The Lasher owns that deployable.

So while it's not as effective against infantry as the MCG or JH it's all around usefullness is nice. Finally the famed "versatility" of the VS actually came through

PS: If you duel you'll know 1v1 the Lasher blows... Cyclers, Sweepers, Gauss Rifles, and of course the MCG and JH routinely smack down the Lasher. Even a Punisher with 1 Plasma grenade loaded will kill a Lasher 1v1 the vast majority of the time.

[Firefly]

Where was I when the VS had shitty equipment? I was too busy protesting the complete array of shitty equipment that the TR since retail launch has had, have had, and will continue to have.

Where was I? I was too busy focusing on my own Empire's shortcomings and trying to circumvent that by creating a better sense of leadership and organization, and fighting to overcome the the bad reputation that the previous leader gave our alliance.

Where was I when the VS had shitty MA, pistols, and all that jazz? Obviously I was way too busy with my own empire, concerned about the sell-outs and the TK'ers and the rampant stupidity and idiocy, and working hard to find the source and eradicate it or improvise-adapt-and-overcome that problem.

But I cannot ignore this now, because TR have no bases left and there are nothing but purple TR-eaters with their Lasher crawling over the continents I spent hours trying to defend, with no success.

The challenge, which I was asked about, is in playing TR. I said it before and I will continue to say it. I play TR because I play the game on Hard.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Well playing Vanu use to be a challenge, but its okay now. I like to think its because I have gotten better.
And im seeing more purple comrades, which is a good thing.
To be honest, I think its more evenly balanced now.
I thinks it unfair for you to say all those things about the Vanu, we use to struggle alot, but i like it and i think i will not change to another empire anytime soon.
Just because we finally have a slight improvement, and the sudden inrush of former NC gloryseekers doesn't mean we need to be nerfed.
We finally got our deserved tweak, after having the worse weapons.
I'm sure the TR will soon get a deserved tweak too, and i won't be any doubt there will be a NC & VS Firefly saying exactly what you will be saying too.

[BadAsh]

Originally Posted by Firefly

I have always complained about the Lasher and its lack of friendly-fire grief. No other weapon boasts that ability...

No other weapon lashes.

Originally Posted by Firefly

But then it also does not kill friendlies. That makes two.

To clear the confusion here... the Lasher does not lash at friendly targets. Orbs that hit friendlies do damage and can wound/kill... it's easier to get grief with the lasher than the MCG or JH because of the orb travel speed. Once you unleash a stream of orbs you can't stop them if a friendly walks into your line of fire. With the JH and MCG you simply stop firing and stop getting grief.

[Acaila]

VS used to be the common pool empire, add FF to the Lash and they will become the weapons lock empire.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

And im seeing more purple comrades, which is a good thing.
To be honest, I think its more evenly balanced now.

I would hardly call 40 percent versus thirty percent and thirty percent evenly balanced. You might call it even, but you're Vanu and I don't expect you to agree with me, simply because of that single fact.

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

I thinks it unfair for you to say all those things about the Vanu, we use to struggle alot, but i like it and i think i will not change to another empire anytime soon.

Again, You might think it's unfair but you're Vanu and you benefit from this, so I don't expect you to agree with me.

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

Just because we finally have a slight improvement, and the sudden inrush of former NC gloryseekers doesn't mean we need to be nerfed.

I'm not calling for a nerf. I am calling for a FIX. There's a difference.

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

We finally got our deserved tweak, after having the worse weapons.

That's great, I am glad for you and the Vanu. Honestly. So will you be glad when the TR finally gets a fix to its complete, 100-percent-across-the-pool shitty inventory? Because when they finally truly balance the game, our organization and determination are going to put all of you in your place.

By the way- the worse weapons are in the TR-specific area. Our tank is the worse possible combinations combined with the worst possible weaknesses combined with the worst possible empire "benefits". The Marauder used to be common on the battlefield because you could drive circles around a Vanguard and eat it alive with the Groundpounder. That weapon system sucks as a whole. All TR empire-specific vehicles require a third person to be remotely effective, something the other two empires don't need. One squad of Vanu or NC tanks has two more functional vehicles than a TR squad. And this rapid-fire low-damage shit means zilch against anything. Our MCG has one hell of a cone of fire (hell being the operative word), they changed all sorts of crap on it and ignored the one simple, logical fix- a tighter cone of fire. It fires the same ammo as an AMP, has medium range at best (which means jack and shit in CQB combat against a Jackhammer or Lasher), and could benefit from a Lasher-esque ammo boost and a non-Friendly-killing tweak as well, to make it balanced. The Repeater- well, it's slow to fire despite the TR use of "rapid-fire". The only good thing about this is range. Pistols are the bread and butter of infiltrators, which is what I play. Infiltrators make close-up kills as a rule and necessity. The AMP outstrips it because of its fast rate of fire, and CoF means squat at point blank range. The only weapon we have (in terms of empire-specific) worth a damn is the Cycler.

You guys had what, a shitty pistol and a shitty buggy? Hey- Threshers can still mow. Marauders just come to a plodding halt. And any troop worth his salt using a pistol better be using the AMP if he wants to kill. Unless he's NC and has that Mag-scatter... god that thing gives me a boner.

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

I'm sure the TR will soon get a deserved tweak too, and i won't be any doubt there will be a NC & VS Firefly saying exactly what you will be saying too

That's fine- bring it on. If their concerns are justified, I'll stand ready to back them if they are legitimate and logical. If not, I'll happily debate them and go toe-to-toe, blow-for-blow.

Originally Posted by BadAsh

No other weapon lashes. [...] To clear the confusion here... the Lasher does not lash at friendly targets. Orbs that hit friendlies do damage and can wound/kill... it's easier to get grief with the lasher than the MCG or JH because of the orb travel speed. Once you unleash a stream of orbs you can't stop them if a friendly walks into your line of fire. With the JH and MCG you simply stop firing and stop getting grief.

Yes I am well aware of what the Lasher does. I know it hits targets and does damage. Read my lasher rants and you will see that I understand this. There is no confusion on this issue, I don't need it pointed out. That doesn't bother me- that's cool, that's great.

The Lasher is called the LASHER, not the "Orb-throwing doom-stick", because it causes damage along the projectile trajectory. It does not, however, lash friendly troops. It may damage one if it hits them, but so does any other weapon. Any other weapon (including other Vanu weapons) cause splash damage. So what if it becomes a grief machine? That's what the Pounder and Burster MAX were. We accepted that and we worked around it. It was a grief machine and we asked for that to stop and it's still a grief machine. We asked for it to be changed, maybe rocklets so it can be a potent AV weapon again. It's a grenade-lobbing piece of shit versus vehicles and now it doesn't even work against troops anymore either, unless you hit them dead on (like a Lasher) but it damages enemies and friendlies alike. That's why people abused the Burster- when you have unimax and two of them are shitty, you go with what works.

Originally Posted by Acaila

VS used to be the common pool empire, add FF to the Lash and they will become the weapons lock empire.

Welcome to the TR nightmare known as Pounder and Burster (before they uber-gimped us again). Either join the crowd, or fix it and shut up.

[SandTrout]

The lasher is good because unlike the other HA in the game, a periferal hit does not reduce the amount of damage flying through the air. An MCG can only throw out 1 bullet at a time, and the JH has a set amount of pelets in the shot. The lasher can get 5 periferal hits(at 1/3 damage each) and a dirrect hit for still full damage. However, this was countered by slow projectile speed and no lash within 5 meters.

The no lash within 5 meters also helped simulated the lack of area affected by the other HA at close range. You fire a JH over someone's shoulder at 2 meters you do no damage. Shoot a lasher over someone's shoulder at 2 meters, you did no damage. Now, though, the lasher will do 1/3 damage even if you're not pointed anywhere near the person.

[Veteran]

The lash does not harm friendly units.

It is the only HA to have an AI to determine whether it damages friendlies or not.

VS are spoiled. You'd think the color purple meant that you could toss your skill out the window and still hope to win.

Sorry, Barney.

[Krinsath]

The TR are underpowered, the vehicle situation is ridiculous and the MAX special ability is basically just making you a bigger target for no defensive trade off (only MAX that gives up offensive capability to use its special ability). The Striker lock-on bug is crippling, but it also affects the NC and VS to an extent as well.

Do I think the TR are not a viable empire? No, not in the slightest. My combined battle ranks across characters: TR - 34 (3 chars, average BR - 11.3), NC - 39 (4 chars, average BR - 9.75), VS - 29 (3 chars, average BR - 9.66). What do those numbers show me? That the TR, despite their disadvantages, STILL manage to compete. We're usually underpopulated, with underpowered weapons. When I play TR, I don't think my weapon is inherently inferior, just requires a bit more skill to ensure you're fighting on your terms. Cover, friendlies, all of these things boost your survivability.

Here's what I want to know, yesterday afternoon, the TR had 30% of the population, giving up our margin to the VS. The VS have six continents under lock, and the NC have two. The only fighting is on Forseral and Ceryshen. There are *no* TR poplocks, despite being zerged on both the fighting continents. WHY THE HELL WERE NO TR DROPPING BASES ON THESE LOCKED CONTINENTS TO OPEN THEM TO HART DROPS? If you can't fight the VS zerg, attack VS bases where the zerg is not. Drop a base near a WG to a NC locked continent, and now the response force has to decide between recalling, reforming and dropping onto a probably poplocked TR continent, or rolling forward into the NC and open up a new front.

This assumes of course that there was no anti-TR conspiracy among the VS and NC CR5s, but if that was the case...sorry, but you're going to lose no matter who you are. 65-70% of the population versus the remainder will be a losing battle no matter what you do.

Again, the major problem with the lasher is that it begins lashing right away. Many people go "So what?" but that's a corridor of 5m in *all* directions that it lashes in. So do the math, if you are standing next to, or behind the Lasher, you will still be lashed. Hence the problem. Stand behind the lasher and you'll be lashed 25 times by a full clip. That's the "aura of invulnerability" I was referring to. You can't get close because you get lashed no matter what. *That* is being fixed and it's the only change to the actual damage equation that the Devs made. Hence, the Lasher will cease to be overpowered once that patch goes in. It's not a permanent condition folks. For all the TR who are complaining, I'd like to point out that the NC have it far worse...your HA doesn't require being within 5m to be effective (exactly where the Lasher is currently too lethal).

[Veteran]

TR have been gimped for months.

It's crushing the game.

Fix it now or watch other games swallow PS' player-base.

And kick Raph Koster in the balls while you're at it. Sony is supposed to punish the weak. He's the king of the weak.

[SpunkJackel]

Man, after seeing posts that are so long and so passionate about things that only exist in a digital world. I am convinced that people much like the posters above may have broke into tears many times while playing his game and getting killed by other players.

[BadAsh]

Originally Posted by Firefly

Yes I am well aware of what the Lasher does. I know it hits targets and does damage. Read my lasher rants and you will see that I understand this. There is no confusion on this issue, I don't need it pointed out. That doesn't bother me- that's cool, that's great.

The Lasher is called the LASHER, not the "Orb-throwing doom-stick", because it causes damage along the projectile trajectory. It does not, however, lash friendly troops. It may damage one if it hits them, but so does any other weapon. Any other weapon (including other Vanu weapons) cause splash damage. So what if it becomes a grief machine? That's what the Pounder and Burster MAX were. We accepted that and we worked around it. It was a grief machine and we asked for that to stop and it's still a grief machine. We asked for it to be changed, maybe rocklets so it can be a potent AV weapon again. It's a grenade-lobbing piece of shit versus vehicles and now it doesn't even work against troops anymore either, unless you hit them dead on (like a Lasher) but it damages enemies and friendlies alike. That's why people abused the Burster- when you have unimax and two of them are shitty, you go with what works.


Welcome to the TR nightmare known as Pounder and Burster (before they uber-gimped us again). Either join the crowd, or fix it and shut up.

Ok, I see the point you are trying to make about the Lasher. In your post here you said it could not cause grief. So regardless what you said in other threads I feel that needed to be cleared up.

I also still do not agree with your point now that you have clearly expressed it for several reasons:

1. Grenage tossing weapons (Bursters, Pounders, and Thumpers) don't cause splash damage along the entire projectile trajectory. They only splash damage when the projectile detonates. So the shooter can control what area gets the splash damage. A Lasher does not have this control so anyone near him when firing would cause grief. That would make the weapon useless as was discovered in beta testing.

2. Grenades are much more effective at splash damage than lashing. If you don't believe me get on a base wall with a thumper and a lasher and see which weapon sucks and which one owns. The Lashing is just part of the weapons suppression fire role that helps make it unique and tried to compinsate for it not being as deadly 1v1 as other HA.

3. The TR splash damage MAX units suck. That does not mean the same logic that makes them suck should be applied to other things in the game. The TR MAX units need a fix. The Lasher does not need to be turned into a usless grief machine just because something else is (old pounder-now fixed kinda).

On the bright side the TR MAX Units got a needed tweak when the DC MAX went back to it's AI role. The Burster is a damn fine AA MAX and if used as such it's as deadly as anything can get in this game. The AV Pounder sucks, but so do all AV MAX units... the Pounder is the worst of the worst though... easily... gee a crappy splash damage MAX... you are suiting up for getting grief and your ass kicked. LOL As a rule of thumb I avoid all AV MAX units. Usually I only use AA... AA MAX Units own.

Anyway, as I said before the Lasher is a nice all around usefull weapon. It's good against MAX units, Spits, Infantry, and has a unique role of supression fire with it's lashing.

However, it's no MCG vs. MAX units when the MCG has AP rounds... 2 lasher clips = dead MAX... 75% of 1 MCG clip = dead MAX. And it's no MCG when used as AI at meduim range...

The Lasher is surely no JH at CQB range and is no JH vs. MAX Units if AP ammo is loaded...

Again, it's a nice all around useful weapon that's reasonably effective and can fill a variety of roles... It actually delivers on the fabled Vanu versitility empire characteristic.