Will infantry be safer from arial attack in PS2? - Page 2

maradine · 2012-07-04, 03:03 PM

For starters, that's generally the nature of aircraft in any narrative, real, game, or otherwise.

Second, there are a number of aircraft that aren't solo tools.

Finally, for the single-seaters, if they're flying around solo and stray into their counter, namely AA, they are also toast like any other solo player.

Crator · 2012-07-04, 03:09 PM

You can still play solo in the game. Revert to more of a support/defense role for solo activities is the best way I've found it in PS1.

Boomhowser · 2012-07-04, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by WorldOfForms

So everyone wants it to be the same model as in PS1 where an aircraft can play solo, while infantry can't?

I'm not advocating for solo infantry. But why do aircraft once again get to be the catch-all soloer's tool?

Kinda lost me to be honest.. maybe the games altered over the years that I havnt played it, but if a solo aircraft killed me as an infantry man I tended to respawn and depending on the skys, load up an aa max suit and wipe out a ton of aircav or load up my phoenix trooper and send up a present either they fled the battlefield or they hung around hoping to find me before the second missle took them down.

see your looking at it wrong, its not can an aircraft run solo can an infantry run solo. Its more a case of can the player run solo regardless of his certs

Electrofreak · 2012-07-04, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Aircraft will only be an issue for infantry with low IQ's, just like in the first game.

...

I can tell you didn't play NC; life is a lot easier versus aircraft with a Striker or Lancer when you're facing down a Mosquito one-on-one.

Ghoest9 · 2012-07-04, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

For starters, that's generally the nature of aircraft in any narrative, real, game, or otherwise.

Second, there are a number of aircraft that aren't solo tools.

Finally, for the single-seaters, if they're flying around solo and stray into their counter, namely AA, they are also toast like any other solo player.

No that is incorrect.

Yes if you stand in a the middle of a field shooting at people you are an easy target for a chopper.

But IN PS1 you can basically do everything that possible to use cover and wear camo but if you try to flank an enemy position you are utterly vulnerable to any skeeoter that is paying attention.

Im not suggesting that solo infantry be able to take on aircraft one on one.
Im saying it shouldnt be hard to hide from one.

Electrofreak · 2012-07-04, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

I played all empires and was never really farmed by air while infantry. If there were a lot of Mosquito's around, I'd grab a Reaver and try to kill them. If there was no Tech Plant, I'd try with a Mosquito. Often I succeeded, solo or grouped. I became obsessed with A2A at some point and quickly became good enough that nobody except Ahriman Corps scared me anymore.

I never absolutely had to play infantry. I did so when the situation called for it, or when the situation allowed it and I felt like doing it. I wasn't married to my Reaver either. If the fight had too much AA or there was too much lag to aim reliably, I would drive people around in tanks, or go stealth.

It's true that on a 1v1 basis, aircraft have always had the most power in the right hands. It's also true that some people are idiots who try the same thing over and over and then blame the game for their failures.

I was talking more about the scenario where you're in a pitched battle as infantry and get attacked by aircraft, not one where you're 10 feet from a Vehicle Terminal.

julfo · 2012-07-04, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Otleaz

Anyone else picture a soldier fending off letters when they read the title?

Yes!!!

Stardouser · 2012-07-04, 03:51 PM

In order to fulfill a mission, we need people to stay with their assigned roles. Infantry for example are needed to capture the cap points. Sure, we could say, just stop and go get your own aircraft to deal with it, but then who will do the capping? This is why we need some separation between infantry and air. That does not mean aircraft weapons should be weak against infantry, it means it is of paramount importance that aircraft not have it super easy to see and snipe infantry. Lots of cover is one way to address this, and not having 3D spotting which will allow aircraft to have too much omniscience, is another.

And having a good system for identifying a need for air support is yet another. I think squad leaders should be able to identify themselves as needing both air support against enemy ground units, and also have a way marking their squad as needing support against enemy air units.

Electrofreak · 2012-07-04, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Strengths and weaknesses. The Phoenix' weakness was that it required practice to aim without guidance. Its strength was its damage per shot and the fact that it could be fired from a sheltered location. Many people never grasped the concepts of target leading, teamwork and denial. This is the primary reason why they got farmed.

1v1 should never be the sole basis for judging weapons. 2 or 3 guys with Phoenixes, and the situation would have been completely different. Perhaps even to the point of beating 2 or 3 guys with Lancers in G2A efficacy. Of course you have to make sure that you have 2 others near you though. Not everyone did that. You can lone wolf it, but expect to be forced into a smaller frame of options. This is true almost everywhere in life.

I agree, but the reality is, most people pick up the easy-to-use weapon and continue to use it. If it's not easy to use, they pick up a Jackhammer instead, hop into a Standard Exosuit, and run around towers with the JH on triple-fire, safe from aircraft.

One reason why, as NC, I never certed HA.

We're expecting far too much of people if we think that the majority will be willing to "practice" with a difficult weapon.

Ghoest9 · 2012-07-04, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Strengths and weaknesses. The Phoenix' weakness was that it required practice to aim without guidance. Its strength was its damage per shot and the fact that it could be fired from a sheltered location. Many people never grasped the concepts of target leading, teamwork and denial. This is the primary reason why they got farmed.

1v1 should never be the sole basis for judging weapons. 2 or 3 guys with Phoenixes, and the situation would have been completely different. Perhaps even to the point of beating 2 or 3 guys with Lancers in G2A efficacy. Of course you have to make sure that you have 2 others near you though. Not everyone did that. You can lone wolf it, but expect to be forced into a smaller frame of options. This is true almost everywhere in life.

blah blah

one v one misrepresentation

This issue isnt being able to kill an aircraft 1v1.

Im talking about it being impossible to for 1 guy to even hide from enemy aircraft.

If you are trying to shoot down airplanes alone the yes you should have the odds against you.
On the other hand if you are wearing camo crawling through the brush trying to flank a tower you should not be easy picking for any skeeter that feels like taking a quick look.

diLLa · 2012-07-04, 04:04 PM

You should be fine, unless you play like a headless chicken.

Electrofreak · 2012-07-04, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

People who simply don't want to learn will be farmed and stomped forever. Nothing we can do about that.

I would agree with that, but history shows a trend of the gaming industry catering those who don't want to learn in the last few years. We already know that PS2 is going to be dumbed-down to an extent (by the dev's own admissions) but my sincere hope is that SOE won't take it too far.

Khrakhan · 2012-07-04, 04:09 PM

agreed. but only up above a given altitude. If you're low enough, then you should just have as much visibility range/detection as anybody on the ground would.

I don't know how well the detection system is at the moment or how the spotting will work, but I can agree that even as a pilot I don't need to see all the infantry if I'm flying around. I would have to get to such a low altitude that it would be dangerous for me to do it in the first place.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-07-04, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Aircraft will only be an issue for infantry with low IQ's, just like in the first game.

AA will only be an issue for Aircraft with low IQ's, just like in the first game.

If an Aircraft commits for a kill and there is sufficient hand held AA around (ie 2 grunts), they should die, especially now with a fucking 1km flight ceiling, the only reason they should ever get shot at by ground fire is if they decide to go low enough.

Tsunami · 2012-07-04, 04:13 PM

I noticed that the most effective way to deal with aircraft was using the turret from the engineer. since flak seemed to just like mess with them and the aircraft could use flares. They may change it but that's what I've gotten.