Battle Rifle for Heavy Assault

[OutlawDr]

I don't think giving LA a long range weapon like this is a good idea. If you simply want a weapon to harrass at range, put a scope on a carbine. However giving them a BR with that range plus their mobility makes them much more than a harasser. They turn into flying mini snipers. There is a nice risk/reward gameplay going with LA in the videos. However allowing them to quickly get favorable position and snipe in comfort removes all the risk. As soon as their position is compromised they can fly away to another nest. This turns into a lone wolf's wet dream.

[Electrofreak]

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

I don't think giving LA a long range weapon like this is a good idea. If you simply want a weapon to harrass at range, put a scope on a carbine. However giving them a BR with that range plus their mobility makes them much more than a harasser. They turn into flying mini snipers. There is a nice risk/reward gameplay going with LA in the videos. However allowing them to quickly get favorable position and snipe in comfort removes all the risk. As soon as their position is compromised they can fly away to another nest. This turns into a lone wolf's wet dream.

^ This. I came here to post almost exactly the same thing.

Also, I see a lot of excitement in this thread over an incomplete weapon listed under a class that's still a WIP in a game that is still in Alpha.

This is a good thread for discussing the viability of giving certain weapons to certain classes but let's not start counting our chickens.

[OutlawDr]

Originally Posted by Electrofreak

^ This. I came here to post almost exactly the same thing.

Also, I see a lot of excitement in this thread over an incomplete weapon listed under a class that's still a WIP in a game that is still in Alpha.

This is a good thread for discussing the viability of giving certain weapons to certain classes but let's not start counting our chickens.

Sure its true, since its alpha things are in flux. But that means we could start doubting EVERYTHING we've seen and heard since technically its all subject-to-change alpha content. I don't want to live in that scarey world.

[Antivide]

Battle rifles should be given to the Infiltrator. Infiltrator trades power and range for rate of fire and magazine size.

I'm pretty sure the HA weapon detailed in the loadout is just an Alpha placeholder. HA should have LMGs to support their anti-infantry role of suppressive fire.

Regardless I think that's just an Alpha placeholder. It just doesn't make sense from a design standpoint to give the strongest non-mechanized unit a psueod-sniper rifle. That would be stepping into the roles of the Infiltrator.

Infiltrator should be the best at long range, with some adaptability to medium range. And so and so forth.

[Accuser]

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

[If you give LA a battle rifle]
They turn into flying mini snipers. There is a nice risk/reward gameplay going with LA in the videos. However allowing them to quickly get favorable position and snipe in comfort removes all the risk. As soon as their position is compromised they can fly away to another nest. This turns into a lone wolf's wet dream.

Exactly.
The Light Assault isn't about positioning, it's about mobility. If LA has a long-range weapon, why would anyone play as a sniping infil? You can get to a MUCH better sniping location with a jetpack than with a part-time cloak.

And if the LA came up against something that could beat him at range (HA or possibly a sniper) he could easily put a wall between him and the enemy to continue LA sniping in a different direction... or just jump to a completely different position. It would be ridiculous.

LA has the ability to outmaneuver the enemy and attack from unexpected directions. It's stupid to give them better sniping opportunities than infil.

[Klockan]

Originally Posted by Antivide

Regardless I think that's just an Alpha placeholder. It just doesn't make sense from a design standpoint to give the strongest non-mechanized unit a psueod-sniper rifle. That would be stepping into the roles of the Infiltrator.

Why? The infiltrators major feature is his cloak, not his rifle. And it still wont be a sniper rifle, it is just a rifle that can hit target at long ranges. Sniper rifles can 1 hit kill, this lmg can't. 1 hit kill means that they can't hide and heal etc. That is the role of the infiltrator, to sneak around and kill things before they can react, sustained damage is the HA's role.

[NoDachi]

Indeed. Infiltration and battlerifles are not congruent at all.

[Karrade]

Originally Posted by OutlawDr

I don't think giving LA a long range weapon like this is a good idea. If you simply want a weapon to harrass at range, put a scope on a carbine. However giving them a BR with that range plus their mobility makes them much more than a harasser. They turn into flying mini snipers. There is a nice risk/reward gameplay going with LA in the videos. However allowing them to quickly get favorable position and snipe in comfort removes all the risk. As soon as their position is compromised they can fly away to another nest. This turns into a lone wolf's wet dream.

I thought the entire point of the LA was to provide cover. I am not speaking about any one weapon they should have, but how will they provide cover from up high with only short range weapons? With no range they are even less useful.

[Kalbuth]

Originally Posted by Karrade

I thought the entire point of the LA was to provide cover. I am not speaking about any one weapon they should have, but how will they provide cover from up high with only short range weapons? With no range they are even less useful.

The entire point of a more mobile unit is to attack an ennemy from unexpected angles. Not to provide cover.
Jetpack is for getting out of a pinned down position and get an angle (ie : flank) the ones pinning your troops down.
LA are backrape-ers, a very important tool in FPS

[Accuser]

Originally Posted by Karrade

I thought the entire point of the LA was to provide cover. I am not speaking about any one weapon they should have, but how will they provide cover from up high with only short range weapons? With no range they are even less useful.

Obviously they aren't designed to provide cover. That's what snipers do. LA get in close, jump behind the enemy, and take out a few enemies with short-range weapons in a blaze of glory, since their armor wont sustain them for long. The jetpack is for surprise and speed. They are PS2's CoD players, compared to the slower movement and heavier weapons of HA and MAXes that are slightly more of PS2's PS1 players.

Giving LA sniper range would make them entirely too dodgey and difficult to kill. Whereas in Alpha, almost any class could kite a MAX, LA-snipers could kite any class. It would make them better snipers than Infiltrators are, and that's just stupid.

[Klockan]

Originally Posted by Karrade

I thought the entire point of the LA was to provide cover. I am not speaking about any one weapon they should have, but how will they provide cover from up high with only short range weapons? With no range they are even less useful.

They are assault troopers, what do "assault" mean to you? To me it is someone who storms enemy positions, not someone who hangs back and provides cover fire. Heavy assault got more firepower and armor while light assault got more ways to attack the enemy and are overall more agile. If the enemy got an heavily entrenched base then jumping in with 20 light assaults from the back might clear it all out in seconds while 20 heavy assaults walking into the front would just get massacred.

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Accuser

Exactly.
The Light Assault isn't about positioning, it's about mobility.

That's YOUR opinion, and a rather limited one at that. LA tactics are about positioning just as much as they are about mobility. Otherwise why give them a jumpjet that let's them go 30 feet in the air? Why not just give them Surge? And why design base maps with so many isolated roofs, catwalks, and cubby holes that only Jumpjets can easily get to?

Originally Posted by Accuser

If LA has a long-range weapon, why would anyone play as a sniping infil?

• infils have longer range
• They can get to their spot undetected
• They can cloak for short period to hid from casual passers-by
• 1s1k sniper rifles

Hard to say what else since we don't know what other abilities infils have.

Originally Posted by Accuser

You can get to a MUCH better sniping location with a jetpack than with a part-time cloak.

No, with LA you can just get into some sniping locations in a more convenient manner. Infils can get to the exact same spots as LA. They just have to bail from an aircraft, and if they bail from flight ceiling while cloaked they can do so undetected, and with an actual 1s1k sniper rifle. Whereas I'll bet LA troops will get shot out of the air time and time again while enroute to those perches because they are 100% visible while doing so.

Originally Posted by Accuser

And if the LA came up against something that could beat him at range (HA or possibly a sniper) he could easily put a wall between him and the enemy to continue LA sniping in a different direction... or just jump to a completely different position. It would be ridiculous.

If you watch the E3 footage you'll see a number of LA troops get shot out of the air while using their jumpjets. LA troops are not invincible in the air, and they fly in slow, lazy arcs with unchanging, predictable trajecteries.

Oh, and try jump-jetting away from my Scythe sometime. See how well that works for you. Remember, combined arms. A smart infil will be able to time that short-duration cloak of his (imperfect as it is) to remain undetected by vehicles passing by, where an LA would get spotted and turned into red mist.

Originally Posted by Accuser

LA has the ability to outmaneuver the enemy and attack from unexpected directions. It's stupid to give them better sniping opportunities than infil.

Again, LA will not get better sniping opportunities, only ones under different circumstances. And they can only outmaneuver certain lone enemies, not coordinated teams, nor vehicles.

[NoDachi]

Originally Posted by Erendil

That's YOUR opinion, and a rather limited one at that. LA tactics are about positioning just as much as they are about mobility. Otherwise why give them a jumpjet that let's them go 30 feet in the air? Why not just give them Surge? And why design base maps with so many isolated roofs, catwalks, and cubby holes that only Jumpjets can easily get to?

It's not just his opinion though.

It's how the game is devised with it's class roles. Light assault is for hitting fast using mobility. It has the jumpjet to close the distance. They're the close ranged / grenadier class, according to the class description.

Just because you have a fantasy about being a LA designated marksmen, doesn't mean the Devs or the players have any intention of including your fantasy.

[Klockan]

Originally Posted by Erendil

That's YOUR opinion, and a rather limited one at that. LA tactics are about positioning just as much as they are about mobility. Otherwise why give them a jumpjet that let's them go 30 feet in the air? Why not just give them Surge? And why design base maps with so many isolated roofs, catwalks, and cubby holes that only Jumpjets can easily get to?

Those roofs are there to allow the light assault to utilize his 3d mobility, not for him to camp on. Light assault is not a camper, he should constantly be repositioning. And then the light assault still got mid range weaponry which is enough to shoot down from any roof, I don't really see why you would need a sniper to be able to utilize roofs.

Originally Posted by Erendil

No, with LA you can just get into some sniping locations in a more convenient manner. Infils can get to the exact same spots as LA. They just have to bail from an aircraft, and if they bail from flight ceiling while cloaked they can do so undetected, and with an actual 1s1k sniper rifle. Whereas I'll bet LA troops will get shot out of the air time and time again while enroute to those perches because they are 100% visible while doing so.

The jetpack mobility is not about flying around to avoid getting shot, it is about flying around to attack from unexpected angles. If an enemy hides behind a wall then flying on top of the wall to shoot him from above is utilizing his mobility. But as soon as the enemy knows you are there the positions value dwindles so you move on to new positions. Constantly changing positions is mobility and not positioning.

[Accuser]

Originally Posted by Klockan

Those roofs are there to allow the light assault to utilize his 3d mobility, not for him to camp on. Light assault is not a camper, he should constantly be repositioning.

The class was clearly constructed for this purpose. LA is not designed to be the ultimate camping class and I know that our PS2 devs aren't dumb enough to make such an unbalanced mistake such as that. Even if they were, the ludicrous power that vertical mobility and long range weapon would grant would be quickly extinguished during Beta.