Lasher NOT Recommended - Page 3

Madcow · 2003-08-21, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Saxywolf
At minimum it needs more ammo per clip to give the Lasher user a factor of safety that the other HA weapons have always had.

I don't even agree with that. Again, using the numbers that i listed in my post above you are talking about (best case scenario) from point blank range a JH user would use 19% of their ammo to kill and a Lasher user would use 25% (more, but certainly not unacceptable). From 20 meters a JH user would have to use 56% while a Lasher user would use 30%. It really all comes down to how you play it. The Lasher user is at a very slight disadvantage at point blank and a large advantage further out. As my other post showed, 9/100ths of a second isn't enough to say the JH has a large advantage over the Lasher close up. Whoever fires first wins. Would you say that you feel that JH is extremely powerful up close against reinforced? Why don't you feel the same about the Lasher?

Saxywolf · 2003-08-21, 04:21 PM

At point blank nobody should be missing much at all. It's all about the mouse skills and movement.

At 0-7m where most indoor fights occur, the JH can hit easier. No leading, slight misses count, and you do not have to hold the target area under the reticule, more time can be focused on moving while moving the reticule to meet the target when the shot is taken.

Thus the JH user would never mean to start a fight at 20m. and if they did it's probobly a surger who will close that distance. It's the 7-20 meters where a Lasher would want to keep the fighting. But, even at this distance, with a large cof, and slow bullets, the decreased (so I've heard) lash many not be enough to counter those misses and thus cause a reload as the enemy finally gets to that sweet spot.

Madcow · 2003-08-21, 04:41 PM

I consider within 5 m to be point blank. The size of the Lasher orbs will make it difficult to miss a target in front of you even with the drunk way those things fire. I really don't think the Lasher deserves any extra loving, it seems to be stabilizing right now. VS still has the most HA certifications out there, there's probably a reason for it.

Saxywolf · 2003-08-21, 06:45 PM

I do not like the management / usability of the thread, but it has more traffic, and many good posts on this subject

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/p...ML/015023.html

or

HERE

Doppler · 2003-08-22, 12:04 PM

Saxy you can slice the data anyway you like but the Lasher is still a very respectable weapon for the HA class in any non long range outdoor engagement. Between no ammo switching, area affect damage and the ability to invalidate cover (splash) without actualy endangering your own people. Can a single guy chase off a vanguard with a lasher anymore? No, should they be able to? No, when was the last time you saw a JH user do effective damage to a magrider, i whould have to say never.

Pyrrus your weapon wasnt so much more respected prenerf as out and out hated and admitted it was sick. The no damage degredation basicly turned your HA intoa valid antvehicle weapon and a stellar max killer. I picked up HA just for lasher looting rights prenerf and droped it again soon after. The honest to god reason you dont see lasher much kiling you as a vanu is because A) your vanu, as a nc i'm not killed by the jackhammer much B) ammo issues. Its bad enough I need to kill someone and take their lasher for my locker but now I have to scrounge energy ammo as well. If you have a sweeper shotgun or a supressor you already have the ammo for the other empires weapons.

So what have you lost witht he post nerf lasher.
The ability to engage vehicles at any range.
Teh ability to engage down long corrdiors and kill just as fast as the JH at far superior range.
The ability to kill max's in a clip and change.

Cease · 2003-08-22, 04:30 PM

Before we could use our lasher against MAXs and VEHs at most ranges. Now with less damage and damage degredation, it's not very effective at all in those situiations. Thus it was "respected" for being quite useful in many situations.

No it was "overpowered" for being quite useful in many situations.

The fact is the devs have a preverbial rock, paper, scissors sort of approach to the design of this game. The problem comes in when many play VS players confuse the "versatility" that the Vanu is supposed to have with they diversity that is essential to the design of the game. The common defense for the Lashers good Max killing capabilities was that fell under the "versatility" umbrella. But I'm of the opinion that wasn't the devs intention. And since the devs tested on the live servers and then made the nerf, that would seem to be a correct assumption. The "versatility" of the Lasher is probably the "lashing" that it does along with its normal damage. Like or not, that is what the Vanu weapon can do that the other empires HA can't.

This game is a team based game that tries to put some emphasis on strategy and tactics. Its the reason players have a limited amount of certifications. Its the reason most weapon classes fill a certain "role". It forces squads to bring a diverse certification pool to a battle -- vehicle certs, HA cert, Max certs, AV certs, support certs. The teamwork part of the game comes into play when a squad uses this diversity to accomplish the goal.

Vanu was using the Lasher for the All in One weapon and therefore losing their diversity. And here is a small by-product to that lack of diversity that benefits the Vanu -- cert points. Vanu didn't cert in AV because the Laser was damn good at AV. That's 3 cert points you can spend elsewhere.

And since you didn't need to carry an AV weapon, around then is Reinforced really all that needed? Maybe -- maybe not. Possible 3 more cert points there as well.

If the devs didn't want diverse squads then there would be no limitations to BR and certifications one can have.

Saxywolf · 2003-08-22, 05:27 PM

Doppler, non-long range meaning...? I now have more detailed data. Check out the link I posted to the other thread. I never said it was too powerful against MAXs or VEHs. Yes, it's true. no we can't take on a max from a distance anymore. Maybe now you'll learn to use the NC AI MAX (which has a better dmg range then the JH, but not as good close up).

We have ammo issues when using the Lasher, Not long term, but with each clip. I'm saying this fact has been overlooked preciously because it was so relatively devastaing in so many situations. Most of the other stats are there to say this is even, this is even, this is where the gun shines, this is even...

Cease, "Respected" was in response to the "Respect" posted by another. The lashing is fairly pathetic (see stats at the link in above post).

Now that our weapon isn't as diverse, what hole or role do you see it filling in our weaponry?

What I'm after is more ammo per clip. Further investigations may or may not increase that.

Cease · 2003-08-22, 05:39 PM

Now that our weapon isn't as diverse, what hole or role do you see it filling in our weaponry?

The same as the other empires Heavy Assault -- killing enemy grunts quickly. Which the Lasher does just as good as the Jackhammer and better than the MCG.

Saxywolf · 2003-08-22, 05:50 PM

and in this "role" I believe we need more ammo per clip. Will this change the time it takes to kill? no. Will it change the damage done to ppl, MAXs, or VEHS? no.

Harps · 2003-08-23, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by Pyrrus
I've yet to be killed by a heavy assualt weapon other than the jackhammer and chaingun since the nerf.

I must say pyrrus you are a moron .. i pretty much play vanu all the time now and i see no difference against inf since the nerf so stop your bitching you started 2 threads on how we were "knocked back to the stoneage" Please do the VS a favor and switch empires

Saxywolf · 2003-08-23, 04:39 AM

Harps, I hope he realizes what he said sounded intuitively stupid when you know that he's VS. I think he meant in comparison to when he was getting killed alot by Lashers.

oh, I have no idea what you mean by inf. Do you mean infiltrators? then whats that got to do with anything...

Hehe... thats probobly a very funny pic but I don't know that other guy. At least I know the guy in the foreground.

Caspertoo · 2003-08-23, 09:08 AM

Oh stop with the bitching and moaning about the lasher, I don't see you picking up a MCG hmm? I hate the VS people posting their whiney little messages "oh we had respect BEFORE the lasher was nerfed" no idiots you didn't have repsect you just had an overpowered weapon, far more than the others, LOL at least now the JH is better up close.

My point is the JH and Lasher are far better than the MCG, they are better up close, will kill faster in their "ideal" range, and use less ammo to do so.

BUT you don't see the TR posting every 5 minutes whining about how the MCG sucks ass do you?

Pyrrus I have to say your an asshat. "I haven't been killed by a heavy assault weapon other than the MCG or JH since the nerf". Being that your VANU your just a regular old asshat.

Harps · 2003-08-23, 12:34 PM

yah sorry about the inf .. i guess i played battlefield 1942 to long, I mean infantry

WritheNC · 2003-08-23, 01:15 PM

The Lasher is fine.

I went on a good number of killing sprees with that thing.

EDIT: Last night it was.

Course, I played a Soldier in TFC hardcore, so timing shots is cake for me.

Saxywolf · 2003-08-23, 02:07 PM

Caspertoo, calling us names for complaining and then complaining about your weapon does noone any good. You also don't seem to understand most of what has been posted. please read it, and think about it. Don't forget to check the other thread out that I linked to.

Please just STOP commenting on Pyrrus post. Enough already.

Harps, there should be no difference in the weapons. They menat only that less of the enemy is using the Lasher. I can't comment on this as I'm not them.

WritheNC, you seem to be quite a skilled killer. You also probobly know what the other person is thinking alot (even if you didn't know you did). Thats exactly what the Lasher needs to be effective. Thats the problem...