Cloakers and there weapons?

[Magpie]

Originally Posted by Shogun

lol we will be forced to play on the same server ;-)
hope we get a chance to be in the beta to test the grief system

I'll look forward to that I might hop on tr/vs and you will not even know I'm there

[Duddy]

Originally Posted by Magpie

So what your saying is the server makes a cloaker a ghost, so no one can track you unless there aloud to via maybe dark light or fast movement, so people cant gamma cheat coz they can't cheat whats not there as the servers making them a ghost, lol it's very confusing but I think I get the ideal

To use another analogy (a very crude one mind you);

You don't want your kids to open their b'day/xmas gift early right?

The best way to prevent that is to not let them know the present exists until you give it to them.

Hope that clarifies further!

[ThGlump]

Originally Posted by Duddy

To use another analogy (a very crude one mind you);

You don't want your kids to open their b'day/xmas gift early right?

The best way to prevent that is to not let them know the present exists until you give it to them.

Hope that clarifies further!

But if you leave them in the middle of the room they could trip over them if they dont know it exist.

What happens when you collide with enemy cloaker?

• You run through them. That sounds like bad idea, cloakers clipping through enemy like they arent there, dont have to wory where they stand to not reveal themselves.
• You run through them and then send back by server when he finally tells your client there is cloaker. This will result in serious rubberbanding.

Both scenarios are pretty bad. They need to send you packets that there is some obstacle in the way.
Or simply send you packets about cloaker, but dont draw him. You would have to crack the code to make them drawn, not simply change gama/texture like in ps1 when they was always drawn.

[Duddy]

Originally Posted by ThGlump

But if you leave them in the middle of the room they could trip over them if they dont know it exist.

What happens when you collide with enemy cloaker?

• You run through them. That sounds like bad idea, cloakers clipping through enemy like they arent there, dont have to wory where they stand to not reveal themselves.
• You run through them and then send back by server when he finally tells your client there is cloaker. This will result in serious rubberbanding.

Both scenarios are pretty bad. They need to send you packets that there is some obstacle in the way.
Or simply send you packets about cloaker, but dont draw him. You would have to crack the code to make them drawn, not simply change gama/texture like in ps1 when they was always drawn.

You have a point, I think it works in HoN because when ever you're moving you're essentially following a "path" once you've clicked to move somewhere and the server knows where you're going so you do bump into invisible players. I must admit that I don't know the specifics.

The not drawing method would certainly work too, but this is still open to potential abuse. If it exists in memory (i.e. you're client knows about it) then it can potentially be abused. I'd think we'd have bigger problems at that point however.

I'd be interested to hear how they chose to overcome this.

[Shogun]

Originally Posted by Duddy

You have a point, I think it works in HoN because when ever you're moving you're essentially following a "path" once you've clicked to move somewhere and the server knows where you're going so you do bump into invisible players. I must admit that I don't know the specifics.

The not drawing method would certainly work too, but this is still open to potential abuse. If it exists in memory (i.e. you're client knows about it) then it can potentially be abused. I'd think we'd have bigger problems at that point however.

I'd be interested to hear how they chose to overcome this.

i don´t know anything about gamemechanics, but i would think the server gives information about the cloakers position but the client doesn´t use this information on the screen until the cloaker gets visible by moving,shooting or being hit. sure if the information is there it could be hacked and abused with a cheaterprogram, but at least you could not bypass cloakers just by turning your monitors contrast to stupid levels. you can ban people for using cheatsoftware, but you cannot ban them for adjusting screenstats.

[Fenrys]

I'm curious about how clipping and no-packet cloakers will work too, but I'm confident the devs will figure it out.

Maybe the first person to run into a cloaker knocks them out of the way with a staggering animation, and then they start sending packets for a second because they've moved.

[Raka Maru]

Cloaker = C
Regular = X

X can't see C
C can see X
Server knows where X and C are at any time
Server never tells X where C is
X shoots or runs into the spot where C is
Server tells X where C is
Now X knows where C is

[Fenrys]

Originally Posted by Raka Maru

Cloaker = C
Regular = X

[1] X can't see C
[2] C can see X
[3] Server knows where X and C are at any time
[4] Server never tells X where C is
[5] X shoots or runs into the spot where C is
[6] Server tells X where C is
[7] Now X knows where C is

That works for hit detection, but I'm not sure about making collisions something other than sloppy.

Between 5 and 6 there exists ~200ms of delay where X runs through the position occupied by C. How do you deal with or prevent 2 clients thinking they occupy the same coordinates?

[Justaman]

Originally Posted by Fenrys

That works for hit detection, but I'm not sure about making collisions something other than sloppy.

Between 5 and 6 there exists ~200ms of delay where X runs through the position occupied by C. How do you deal with or prevent 2 clients thinking they occupy the same coordinates?

This is something very intricate to the client and server mechanics that would require a dev response to truthfully clarify.

Sure, we could come up with radical ideas on how or what will happen, but we have no way of proving anything yet.

I would assume, that once your very close to a cloaker, such as right before touching (or 200ms worth of movement distance, give or take a clipping allowance (or possibly a lot more room depending on how visible cloakers are at certain distances)) the cloaker would be slightly more visible than his previous "not at all". Which is enough to merit packets and prevent "I'm inside you bro *wink*".

Or maybe they both just knock their heads together, and grunt, as they both fall to the floor. With X in his power armor going, WTF did I hit? And C on his back, holding his hands over his mouth, trying not to cry about his big boo-boo. (X and C get repelled from each other based on movement vectors and rapid deceleration with a possible *fall over* animation)

And then X stands up and replaces all the air that C might have been trying to breath, with BULLETS!

[Shogun]

this is a thing, no dev will give any detailed information about.
because it hits the hackerprotection field, and the less info is known about anticheating, the better!
the problem we see here is too obvious for the devs to not having worked it out. (if it really is any kind of problem at all)

the pcgamer info was just to clarify, that cloaker-detection will not be a matter of screenadjustment anymore and that they have developed a whole new cloak mechanic.

[Duddy]

I'm sure we'll find out in due course, and I trust that suitable solution is being used.

But hey, couldn't be worse than the original, right?