Has there been news of a buff for NC MAX? - Page 3

ringring · 2013-11-15, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by War Barney

They are not far from useless they are very close to it as its only short range fights that they have a use and sadly continents have large open areas. If there was a continent that was a huge city with tiny allies and no main street they'd be great.

You should not be using maxes of any empire in the open areas of continents, with the possible exception of bursters.

NC maxes are meant for close range indoors fights and we know at close range they have the advantage. Now if you're saying there are not enough close range situations ask for a base redesign and I'll be with you.

War Barney · 2013-11-15, 04:32 PM

I doubt they will redesign every base to be suitable for the NC MAX though, and the other MAXs can fight outside, granted the VS MAX has the best time outside but the TR MAX can have a go at it. A NC MAX outside it basically a sitting duck only more helpless

ringring · 2013-11-15, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by War Barney

I doubt they will redesign every base to be suitable for the NC MAX though, and the other MAXs can fight outside, granted the VS MAX has the best time outside but the TR MAX can have a go at it. A NC MAX outside it basically a sitting duck only more helpless

Yea, probably not, although you have to admit they do like their base redesigns and are busy doing Amerish atm.

I'm not usually one for engaging in the nerf this/buff that conversations, although I recall I did object when folk asked for buffs to claymores, but where I part company with you is asking for maxes to be effective out of doors. I wouldn't often think of taking my max outside unless it was a burster or I was running from one building to another.

However, the day before I stopped I was in a fracture on the roof of the double-decker building in the north of Esamir shooting at infantry targets that I would not choose to try to do so with an LMG, and I was getting hits and assists if not kills. However I didn't go out and mix it close up where they were, I stayed to where I had good cover to retreat to and where I knew I had the advantage.

typhaon · 2013-11-16, 01:18 AM

You know what would be kind of cool?

If the Aegis Shield was combined with charge, THEN you'd have a real skill.

War Barney · 2013-11-16, 10:21 PM

Well after talking to some people who use the MAX I've found the main issue! its that the Nc MAX CAN be good.. but only when you fully kit it out with double mattocks with extended ammo and slugs and a fully upgraded shield to use while reloading. thats 2k certs for the mattocks, 1k for the extended ammo, 300 for the slugs, another 2150 I think in total for the shield fully upgraded, so thats 5450 certs before the NC MAX becomes useable...

A VS and TR MAX however.. now that can be great right out of the box. So how about this, either make the damn gun upgrades cheaper or give us enough ammo to not make extended ammo absolutely essential. I'm fine needing to buy 2 mattocks as I can use SC (still would be annoying being forced to do this while TR and VS MAXs can use defaults but thats fine), and slugs aren't that expensive at 300 certs for both, but the combined price with the shield is just insane.

And don't try to say they work without a shield... the extended mags help but you damn well need the shield for reloading or it wont work.

Chewy · 2013-11-16, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by War Barney

A VS and TR MAX however.. now that can be great right out of the box.

I wouldn't say good out of the box. You need at least a 2nd AI arm to be good in most cases. So about 250 certs are all TR and VS MAXes need. Everything past that is gravy. Thick gravy over just baked buttered biscuits. The gravy you want to eat as soup.

Great, now Im hungry.

Shamrock · 2013-11-17, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by War Barney

Well after talking to some people who use the MAX I've found the main issue! its that the Nc MAX CAN be good.. but only when you fully kit it out with double mattocks with extended ammo and slugs and a fully upgraded shield to use while reloading. thats 2k certs for the mattocks, 1k for the extended ammo, 300 for the slugs, another 2150 I think in total for the shield fully upgraded, so thats 5450 certs before the NC MAX becomes useable...

A VS and TR MAX however.. now that can be great right out of the box. So how about this, either make the damn gun upgrades cheaper or give us enough ammo to not make extended ammo absolutely essential. I'm fine needing to buy 2 mattocks as I can use SC (still would be annoying being forced to do this while TR and VS MAXs can use defaults but thats fine), and slugs aren't that expensive at 300 certs for both, but the combined price with the shield is just insane.

And don't try to say they work without a shield... the extended mags help but you damn well need the shield for reloading or it wont work.

First time i used a stock scat with no upgrades other than the second standard scat arm i ran a kill streak of around 50-55 against VS targets, they are perfectly viable, of course upgrading them with extended clips and armour resists just makes them more effective like any other MAX. I don't get what this issue is with using MAX's outdoors, you should never use a MAX outdoors regardless of faction if you can avoid it unless your a burster or AV spec (though running nano rep helps if you really are set on being outdoors).

War Barney · 2013-11-17, 09:42 AM

MAXs might be designed for inside but a VS and TR MAX can do it while a NC MAX has no chance at all. And as for that crap about scats.. well either you were up against the tutorial platoon or you are just lying those things are worthless at anything but 0-5m without slugs and even then no extended ammo makes you run out of ammo way to quickly.

Just because you can get a 55 kill streak with knives if idiots charge you without shooting does that make it good? You should try using scatts without any upgrades (including shield) in a normal fight and see how horribly quickly you die while getting no kills.

War Barney · 2013-11-17, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Chewy

I wouldn't say good out of the box. You need at least a 2nd AI arm to be good in most cases. So about 250 certs are all TR and VS MAXes need. Everything past that is gravy. Thick gravy over just baked buttered biscuits. The gravy you want to eat as soup.

Great, now Im hungry.

They are a lot more viable without spending than a NC MAX though, the AV gun you get is quite good against infantry as well I've found (TR one might need an extra gun can't remember what their second gun is).

Hell I didn't even count in the certs for upgrading your defences in my count so the 5450 (3450 if you use SC to buy the guns) would be for a MAX with no resistances.

almalino · 2013-11-17, 11:05 AM

Yeh, stock NC max is pretty much useless. With Aegis shield it can be a distractor for enemies but still it is very hard to kill with NC MAX unless you are very close to enemy soldiers.

I cannot say for VS or TR maxes since I do not play those factions but I see their maxes often outside attaccing bases and I barely see NC maxes in the open because you are a huge slow walking duck that cannot really hit you if it shoot back.

ringring · 2013-11-17, 11:23 AM

Stock TR max isn't a lot of good. You get dual-cycler on one arm and pounder on the other and no one runs pounder.

The first upgrades people get are dual mercies or dual onslaughts and then dual fractures. Kinetic armour is also essential (or auto repair).

No TR max user that I know of uses dual DC or dual pounder.

I can accept maxes overall are OP but I don't think you've made a good case that NC maxes are. There is a case that NC maxes need to be used differently than other maxes, but differentiation is good in my view.

Hmr85 · 2013-11-17, 11:54 AM

I personally don't have any issues with my MAX. It is fully certed up with scats. But let's be honest here. I don't try to play my MAX offensively and maybe that's the difference. I know what the shortfalls for the NC MAX is. So I force the enemy to come to me by positioning myself properly when holding a point. Also, Aegis shield is beast if used properly. I say used properly because 90% of NC honestly don't have a fucking clue how to use it.

The NC MAX is far from worthless IMO.

Chewy · 2013-11-17, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by ringring

There is a case that NC maxes need to be used differently than other maxes, but differentiation is good in my view.

Differentiation is a good thing, if one has problems going into anothers area.

That isn't happening in PS2 for MAXes. HMG MAXes (TR and VS) can be used up to ranges of 30m without problems and get better the closer you get from being able to land more hits thanks to bigger targets. Shotguns (NC) though are limited to under 15m and have real problems at that range from ammo limits.

A HMG might not get a certain kill at 20m+ but it WILL remove threats. Pepper damage adds up and makes players run for cover removing them from the fight till they regen or get healed. At the same 20m range shotguns have hit their limp damage and have spreads 2 or more times that of HMGs. Look at this gameplay of a Mercy Heavy C TR MAX.

@2:50 and up you see him holding a door and what looks to be 20+m. Him and 1-2 infantry are able to clear that door and push back the enemy. A NC MAX in that same spot would have to move up to that rock arch in order to get the same effect and have MUCH less cover as well as being very far from the safe portal room for repairs. Plus you have the constant amount of fire a HMG can put in a door for suppression/pepper damage.

This is why I hate shotguns. They have no options to them. You either get close for a fast kill or likely die. Slugs don't help much as well. More range to kill infantry but damn near doubles the amount of hits to kill a MAX going up from 13-15 at 10m to 20 at 10m. With 20 shells max the odds are not in your favor.

War Barney · 2013-11-17, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Chewy

Differentiation is a good thing, if one has problems going into anothers area.

That isn't happening in PS2 for MAXes. HMG MAXes (TR and VS) can be used up to ranges of 30m without problems and get better the closer you get from being able to land more hits thanks to bigger targets. Shotguns (NC) though are limited to under 15m and have real problems at that range from ammo limits.

A HMG might not get a certain kill at 20m+ but it WILL remove threats. Pepper damage adds up and makes players run for cover removing them from the fight till they regen or get healed. At the same 20m range shotguns have hit their limp damage and have spreads 2 or more times that of HMGs. Look at this gameplay of a Mercy Heavy C TR MAX.

http://youtu.be/apmSuB-K70o

@2:50 and up you see him holding a door and what looks to be 20+m. Him and 1-2 infantry are able to clear that door and push back the enemy. A NC MAX in that same spot would have to move up to that rock arch in order to get the same effect and have MUCH less cover as well as being very far from the safe portal room for repairs. Plus you have the constant amount of fire a HMG can put in a door for suppression/pepper damage.

This is why I hate shotguns. They have no options to them. You either get close for a fast kill or likely die. Slugs don't help much as well. More range to kill infantry but damn near doubles the amount of hits to kill a MAX going up from 13-15 at 10m to 20 at 10m. With 20 shells max the odds are not in your favor.

Exactly this, I've not got any shotguns for my infantry because while they are great at extremely close range you are limited to that range, people at any other range will destroy you.

NC in general seem to be a bit screwed over when it comes to guns, they are powerful and all but it seems to have been decided that the NC gets the most powerful guns and in exchange you wont hit much with them unless you ADS so close range we get slaughtered. Then to balance out the short range a bit we get shotguns but then we can't do longer ranges.

So for a NC you basically dedicate yourself to long or short range and accept in 1 situation you have no hope and in the other you have a good chance (though its still not a sure thing).

ringring · 2013-11-17, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Chewy

Differentiation is a good thing, if one has problems going into anothers area.

That isn't happening in PS2 for MAXes. HMG MAXes (TR and VS) can be used up to ranges of 30m without problems and get better the closer you get from being able to land more hits thanks to bigger targets. Shotguns (NC) though are limited to under 15m and have real problems at that range from ammo limits.

@2:50 and up you see him holding a door and what looks to be 20+m. Him and 1-2 infantry are able to clear that door and push back the enemy. A NC MAX in that same spot would have to move up to that rock arch in order to get the same effect and have MUCH less cover as well as being very far from the safe portal room for repairs. Plus you have the constant amount of fire a HMG can put in a door for suppression/pepper damage.

I take your point, I would say that is extreme range for DC+mercy but would guarantee a kill unless their opponent cooperate.

But notice what he says too, he effectively said he was hanging back away from the door because of scatmaxes inside and they were better at close range.

Maybe it's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other.

**he also says maxes are to be nerfed, I haven't heard that but I have heard that fractures will be.

TBH I don't care much, but I would want the differentiation to be maintained.