A2Am are now an I-win button

[BlaxicanX]

After watching the video SNAFU posted, I do have to agree that the turns those things were making are ludicrous. No missile should be capable of doing a 90+ degree turn at near point-blank range like that.

A2A missiles should be most useful at mid-range, with flares making them less useful at long-range and sharp turns throwing them off at close-range. Their damage at least seems balanced, so a nerf to their turning-radius would be adequate, I think.

[JackD]

Originally Posted by snafus

I'm curious on which server you play on. And that video shows how the recent update has allowed missile tracking to even be further buffed with the ability to pull 180 turns at point blank range which used to allow it to miss. Not to mention it does a wonderful job of showing just how amazingly powerful that weapon has become with little effort put in. As far as Aces using them I cant speak for other servers but Connery that would be incredibly rare to see an Ace with those on, hell I don't even own them out of spite myself.

Iam playing on Cobalt. The Bling Squad already changed to A2Am which is an Outfit consisting of a handful aces + other good pilots. Also some other random aces and pilots of top outfits changed to A2Am I used to run with fuel pods and fire supr. this is sucide now.

Yeah the 180 turns are ridiculous but the tracking was not less ridiculous before.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by JackD

Iam playing on Cobalt. The Bling Squad already changed to A2Am which is an Outfit consisting of a handful aces + other good pilots. Also some other random aces and pilots of top outfits changed to A2Am I used to run with fuel pods and fire supr. this is sucide now.

Yeah the 180 turns are ridiculous but the tracking was not less ridiculous before.

To be honest after speaking to some of the top pilots left on Connery these days it may just be a good idea to start abusing them. Like everything else in PS2 unless we start to farm kills with them it will be considered balanced and It may be well time I sully my account and max them out.

As far as them being even more ridiculous they used to be able to be dodged repeatedly at close quarters but that is now very unlikely with the new changes. Not to mention they removed the ability to do the dodge maneuver when you face them, yes I know it was a bug technically. Guess what is left of the top flyers in PS2 need to go full on troll mode and show just how broken these weapons are.

[BeyondNinja]

[QUOTE=HereticusXZ;952696] Except that there far from OP? Between Flares that can be instant popped w/ a 15-30 second CD, Line-Of-Sight breaks, and this little trick...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gis_oKWuwus

Except that flares have a 25-40 second CD, the missiles lock so fast that breaking LOS is unviable to do consistently unless you fly within 10m of cover at all times, and 'that trick' has been confirmed to not work anymore since PU2...

[BeyondNinja]

The whole problem of A2A missiles atm is that they have literally 0 skill cap.
As it stands there is hardly any reason why an ace would actually perform significantly better with them than an average pilot...

[Lonehunter]

Really not a huge deal once you learn how to avoid them. With the ESF update adding radar tracking for missiles it will be even easier. Almost guaranteed for the skillful.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter

Really not a huge deal once you learn how to avoid them. With the ESF update adding radar tracking for missiles it will be even easier. Almost guaranteed for the skillful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gis_oKWuwus

They nerfed the ability to dodge A2AM since that video came out. Currently A2AM are nearly a 100% chance to hit if no flares are deployed.

[War Barney]

I don't know about A2A but DON'T make flares more effective, its already almost pointless to use G2A rocket launchers as they need to me more or less hovering right over your head before they are in range then they have flares almost non stop.

Buying the anti-air rocket launcher was the biggest mistake I've made in terms of purchases, sure I've not used the cyclone since I bought the blitz but it was good for the time I had it, the hawk is just a useless thing I'll never use again, maybe if it didn't take 5+ shots to kill people it would be ok... but 5+ shots at very close range with flares to counter.. what idiot would go for that

[Boildown]

Originally Posted by War Barney

I don't know about A2A but DON'T make flares more effective, its already almost pointless to use G2A rocket launchers as they need to me more or less hovering right over your head before they are in range then they have flares almost non stop.

Buying the anti-air rocket launcher was the biggest mistake I've made in terms of purchases, sure I've not used the cyclone since I bought the blitz but it was good for the time I had it, the hawk is just a useless thing I'll never use again, maybe if it didn't take 5+ shots to kill people it would be ok... but 5+ shots at very close range with flares to counter.. what idiot would go for that

You expect too much. You need to position yourself well to get hits with the Hawk. You can hold a lock and see if they flare before you fire it off. If they don't, and then they flare after you shoot the Hawk (or Annihilator), then you wait 5 seconds and see if they're still around, and if they are, the second one will hit.

If you're expecting kills, you need to realize that it takes 3 to kill an ESF. Either team up with other people or lower your expectations. You can still have a positive effect on your airspace with lockons, even without getting kills. And you can help keep friendly ESFs in the skies by helping shoot down the enemy mossies and scythes, even if you don't get the killshot.

To say the Hawk is worthless is just ignorant however.

Example of how to use the Hawk/Annihilator: http://www.twitch.tv/boildown/c/3518579 .

[JackD]

I start to get really excited about the upcoming ESF patch. A2Am changes look great and i might even be able to run without the flares again. The new weapons also look balanced now. Looks like its going to be fine.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by Boildown

You expect too much. You need to position yourself well to get hits with the Hawk. You can hold a lock and see if they flare before you fire it off. If they don't, and then they flare after you shoot the Hawk (or Annihilator), then you wait 5 seconds and see if they're still around, and if they are, the second one will hit.

If you're expecting kills, you need to realize that it takes 3 to kill an ESF. Either team up with other people or lower your expectations. You can still have a positive effect on your airspace with lockons, even without getting kills. And you can help keep friendly ESFs in the skies by helping shoot down the enemy mossies and scythes, even if you don't get the killshot.

To say the Hawk is worthless is just ignorant however.

Example of how to use the Hawk/Annihilator: http://www.twitch.tv/boildown/c/3518579 .

well it is, you might get a lucky hit but generally your just wasting time trying to use a hawk on flying enemies as they can so easily fly out of range. Sure idiot pilots might stay around when they've used flares but most competent ones will fly off for a few seconds till they have flares again then come in to fight so at the very best you're just slightly slowing down the attack and in exchange aren't helping anywhere else

[Obstruction]

well it is, you might get a lucky hit but generally your just wasting time trying to use a hawk on flying enemies as they can so easily fly out of range. Sure idiot pilots might stay around when they've used flares but most competent ones will fly off for a few seconds till they have flares again then come in to fight so at the very best you're just slightly slowing down the attack and in exchange aren't helping anywhere else

the word that you are groping for is "deterrent." it's been stated many times through not only player discussion but also developer notes, and widely agreed upon by all but the most ignorant groundlings that deterrence is the intended function of single unit AA weapons.

these weapons are intended to deny airspace only when enough units "aren't helping anywhere else." which is what we call asymmetrical balance. 4-5 player units dedicated to AA can achieve deadly force, rapid TTK, and with proper support can deny airspace until such time as an armor column or opposing infantry squad can be brought in combination with CAS to clear it out. i've purposed and commanded both squads and platoons myself to exactly this end, from both ground and CAS roles.

ground units are resource free, timer independent, low skill floor, and out-populate air units 10 to 1 in the smallest fights, 30 or more to 1 in large fights. many tools have been placed at ground's disposal, including fixed, armored turrets that don't run out of ammo and occupy key strategic positions at all major installations and most minor ones. these even got a buff recently. some ground based AA weapons can even be fired through spawn shields, and believe me they almost always are.

if you want to defeat air units with just your one player unit, learn to fly, get up here, and try to take me out yourself. even when you lose i will have a lot more respect for your effort than i do watching you make a fool of yourself in public like this, crying that the game just isn't fair.

now if we could, please, let's get this thread back to discussion of A2A missiles and away from this ignorant whining.

[War Barney]

Originally Posted by Obstruction

the word that you are groping for is "deterrent." it's been stated many times through not only player discussion but also developer notes, and widely agreed upon by all but the most ignorant groundlings that deterrence is the intended function of single unit AA weapons.

these weapons are intended to deny airspace only when enough units "aren't helping anywhere else." which is what we call asymmetrical balance. 4-5 player units dedicated to AA can achieve deadly force, rapid TTK, and with proper support can deny airspace until such time as an armor column or opposing infantry squad can be brought in combination with CAS to clear it out. i've purposed and commanded both squads and platoons myself to exactly this end, from both ground and CAS roles.

ground units are resource free, timer independent, low skill floor, and out-populate air units 10 to 1 in the smallest fights, 30 or more to 1 in large fights. many tools have been placed at ground's disposal, including fixed, armored turrets that don't run out of ammo and occupy key strategic positions at all major installations and most minor ones. these even got a buff recently. some ground based AA weapons can even be fired through spawn shields, and believe me they almost always are.

if you want to defeat air units with just your one player unit, learn to fly, get up here, and try to take me out yourself. even when you lose i will have a lot more respect for your effort than i do watching you make a fool of yourself in public like this, crying that the game just isn't fair.

now if we could, please, let's get this thread back to discussion of A2A missiles and away from this ignorant whining.

I realise you want the game to be easy so try to just insult people instead of saying anything that makes sense or is helpful but the comparison in damage is still ridiculous as it takes about 5 hawk rockets to get 1 kill so you aren't even a good deterrent, most people will wait till they are 1 or 2 rockets from dead then land, heal up in a few seconds then come back.

I know you will keep trying to say *but you stop then doing stuff for a few seconds thats worth you not doing a single thing for ages!* but its really not when you don't get any kills or any real damage while the thing your shooting at will often be destroying many tanks and people (hell they will often start by killing you easily).

And I know its hard for you to understand simple concepts but I brought this up as people mentioned making flares refresh faster as a fix for A2A which would then adversely affect G2A launchers thus why I brought it up as a bad idea.

Now please stop spouting your complete drivel and let this discussion continue in peace

[Obstruction]

most people will wait till they are 1 or 2 rockets from dead then land, heal up in a few seconds then come back.

de·ter·rent
diˈtərənt/
noun
noun: deterrent; plural noun: deterrents

1.
a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something.

in this case the deterrent makes the pilot leave. that's what it means. you're complaining that it does what you're saying it does.

if you are insulted by being described as ignorant, there is probably a reason for that. it is not intended as an insult, it is just a simple, accurate description of the point of view being presented.

ig·no·rance
ˈignərəns/
noun
noun: ignorance

1.
lack of knowledge or information.

i hope this clears things up a bit. i've tried to caution you about the risk of appearing foolish, but i think at this point it's clear you are unconcerned. so, soldier on, brave, brave fool.

===

back on topic, the only time A2A bother me much at all are in groups. but there isn't a lot you can do if you're that badly outnumbered anyway. 3 v 1 or 4 v 1 is always going to come down to luck.

we can take out 2 lock on ESFs usually, unless one of them is also very talented in the hover meta and using the primary with skill as well.

if a very talented ESF is using lock ons correctly to take us down 1 v 1, they are using them to increase DPS because it's difficult to get us without using almost all available ammo.

a bad ESF with lock ons isn't really even a threat alone in a 1 v 1 with our lib. they don't get consecutive locks, or engage with the primary. they let our nanites function and don't do enough DPS to take us out. then they either get too close to the dalton, try to run and get tankbustered, or fail to move fast enough and i run them over.

so while they may be a real pain in the ass in groups, that's just sort of what i expect from planetside. G2A, MAX flak, Basilisks, all those things reach a critical mass that can deny air with deadly efficiency when used properly in groups. this is just another example of that, although in this case the only remedy is bringing an equally sized but more skilled ESF group to counter.

the real concern here, and one that i share, is that lowering the skill floor further may create an environment where low skill weapons are the majority, and the air meta becomes mainly low skill players swarming objectives with little room for player skill to have an impact.

it would be like having an auto aim for people who are not good at infantry. or some type of OHK missile that locks onto infantry. you could do that to make the FPS ground portion of the game more accessible, but it would clearly ruin the game. i feel the same about adding more and more low skill/no skill lock on weapons to the A2A and G2A meta.

[Baneblade]

I use the shit out of my Annihilator now that it does the same damage as the Hawk. My kill rate went up a ton.