A2Am are now an I-win button

phungus · 2014-01-01, 05:45 PM

So I'm a dirty A2Am user, always have been because they have been, through most of the game, incredibly overpowered. I use overpowered weapons.

Now though they are beyond overpowered, they are pure I-win buttons.

I don't think this is good for gameplay - in fact from playing this morning all I can conclude is that it completely ruins gameplay. There is no counter to A2Am, they kill a target in less time then it takes to fire flares, determine threat is A2Am and turn around or get to cover. They are litterally autohit weapons that don't need to be even aimed, with no viable recourse. They used to be OP, but this is beyond anything I've ever experienced in a video game.

Basically A2Am now function like an autohit sniper rifle, that does 33% damage to any infantry in a sniper's scope. That's crazy and such a weapon should not exist.

Illtempered · 2014-01-01, 07:28 PM

I only use them for the lols and seem to get hatetells for every kill with them. What if we gave aircraft more flares to use before cooldown. I don't even use them any more because I find fire-suppression saves my ass more in combo with fuel-tanks.

Edit to say: I know you're a very good pilot, but it's rare, at least on mattherson and waterson, for good pilots to use A2A on a regular basis. So they don't seem to be too much of an issue for us. If I get lock and am without friends and allies, all I can do is hope I'm a better enough pilot to overcome. If not, I consider it my own fault.

phungus · 2014-01-01, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Illtempered

I only use them for the lols and seem to get hatetells for every kill with them. What if we gave aircraft more flares to use before cooldown. I don't even use them any more because I find fire-suppression saves my ass more in combo with fuel-tanks.

Edit to say: I know you're a very good pilot, but it's rare, at least on mattherson and waterson, for good pilots to use A2A on a regular basis. So they don't seem to be too much of an issue for us. If I get lock and am without friends and allies, all I can do is hope I'm a better enough pilot to overcome. If not, I consider it my own fault.

I'm actually not very good anymore. It takes more then an hour or so of play a week to keep your game up, and I'm clearly not up to snuff. The last time I logged in though it seemed everyone was using A2Am - which is fine I don't mind tasting my own medicine, lord knows I deserve it. But I switched from AB tanks to A2Am and found out they were buffed to the point of ridiculousness. They've always been defacto auto hit, but now they have like no lock on time so even with AB tanks you can't even turn and face your attacker before 3 A2Am's shoot you down. There is litterally no recourse, they just function like pure I-win buttons.

Serious question can anyone else think of a PvP weapon in any game that was this I-win? I can't think of any, even the BFG in Doom II was easier to deal with... Seriously does anyone have any real examples of weapons like this that were in a PvP game? It really seems like this is the most obscene and overpowered weapon I have ever seen in PvP in any video game I have ever played.

HereticusXZ · 2014-01-01, 09:44 PM

Except that there far from OP? Between Flares that can be instant popped w/ a 15-30 second CD, Line-Of-Sight breaks, and this little trick...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gis_oKWuwus

A2A Missiles aren't to effective beyond a introduction attack and a execution when the targets running away. The nose gun murders you faster, you can just circle drift and avoid the lock-on completely.

Gals and Liberators laugh at A2A considering how long it takes you to kill them with a lonely A2A missile attack.

I think your just getting extremely lucky and shooting down bad and brand new pilots who have no idea what to do... It is a F2P game where any common joe with no experience can pull a vehicle with relatively no penalty if lost, So there's a lot of bad pilots...

Playing devils advocate though it would be nice to see the Striker Lock-On mechanic applied to ESF A2A missiles. If you fire the missile and look away then the missile loses it's lock and goes crazy completely missing the target, You have to fire the missile and keep the target locked on the whole time in your target reticle until the missile hits the target instead of fire-and-forget, Something like radar guided missiles.

phungus · 2014-01-01, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by HereticusXZ

Except that there far from OP? Between Flares that can be instant popped w/ a 15-30 second CD, Line-Of-Sight breaks, and this little trick...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gis_oKWuwus

A2A Missiles aren't to effective beyond a introduction attack and a execution when the targets running away. The nose gun murders you faster, you can just circle drift and avoid the lock-on completely.

Gals and Liberators laugh at A2A considering how long it takes you to kill them with a lonely A2A missile attack.

I think your just getting extremely lucky and shooting down bad and brand new pilots who have no idea what to do... It is a F2P game where any common joe with no experience can pull a vehicle with relatively no penalty if lost, So there's a lot of bad pilots...

Playing devils advocate though it would be nice to see the Striker Lock-On mechanic applied to ESF A2A missiles. If you fire the missile and look away then the missile loses it's lock and goes crazy completely missing the target, You have to fire the missile and keep the target locked on the whole time in your target reticle until the missile hits the target instead of fire-and-forget, Something like radar guided missiles.

You clearly have not flown an ESF since the December 21st patch.

Why are you commenting on an aspect of gameplay you know nothing about?

snafus · 2014-01-01, 10:55 PM

The amount of A2AM ESF packs have increased over the past few weeks again. Gets frustrating when you take on three of them and none even bother to engage with the nose gun. But as we have seen over the past year SOE will always keep forms of skill less weapons approachable and to powerful.

BlaxicanX · 2014-01-01, 11:54 PM

I imagine dying is appropriate in most 3-1 odds.

phungus · 2014-01-02, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX

I imagine dying is appropriate in most 3-1 odds.

You know, I can and have taken on small squads of 5 players before. Recently, just a couple days ago I offensively took a base as infantry against 3 players who were defending - just me and my heavy assault.

If you are good enough 1 v 3 is not an instant death sentence in infantry fights. Skill has an impact, and you can actually acomplish something. In the current air game A2Am completely remove any impact of skill, they are pure I-win weapons.

BlaxicanX · 2014-01-02, 03:07 AM

The problem being that failing to kill 3 guys because they have missiles doesn't necessarily mean that the missiles are broken.

SOE didn't put A2A missiles into the game to increase the skill-ceiling for flyers; they did it for the opposite reason actually, to lower the skill-ceiling and make it possible for newer players to not get hopelessly blown out of the sky by veterans. If Snafu, whose one of the best pilots in the game, tried to hammer three newbs simultaneously and got killed for his trouble, it sounds like the missiles might be working as intended.

What I'm basically asking for is something beyond personal anecdotes for evidence of why A2A missiles are broken.

Baneblade · 2014-01-02, 08:26 AM

I'll have to give them a try again, but the last time someone was bitching about them, they were terrible to use effectively.

Lonehunter · 2014-01-02, 01:04 PM

I don't think they've actually changed anything about them in a while have they? Reworking the whole lock on system was talked about during the ESF update, but all that was put in the back seat for the OMFG update

Tatwi · 2014-01-02, 04:48 PM

If they genuinely do not have an effective counter and they genuinely do not require any skill to use, then yes that sounds out of balance.

I set up my mossy for ground attack strafing at high speed (which often ends me in slamming into something

) and I haven't had much of a problem out running lockons. I tend to get nailed hard by ground based AA to justify bailing, so I use the ejection seat rather than flares. Jump out and hope for the best. lol...

Once again I have to say that "the hover game" is the joke at the heart of many issues with the flight system. If weapons would not fire if the aircraft was flying forward slower than 60KPH or so, then none of these issues would exist, because would be forced to FLY to use their flying weapons platform. I guess I am just a crazy old man though, so what do I know.

Baneblade · 2014-01-02, 09:47 PM

The OP is full of shit. A2AM are just as crap as they have been since the 'fix'.

phungus · 2014-01-02, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

The OP is full of shit. A2AM are just as crap as they have been since the 'fix'.

Thanks for the well thought out post.

A2Am have always been overpowered, but now they are worse. They did buff speed, made them impossible to dodge, and reduced lock on time in the Dec 21st patch. These are quantifiable facts: Either you're a liar or a moron who spouts incorrect bs out your ass, either way you're way you're the idiot who is full of shit.

Baneblade · 2014-01-02, 10:46 PM

It is easier and quicker to just use the nose gun.