Zealot Maxes need rebalancing - Page 4

Fara · 2013-05-24, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

why is ZOE a permanent ability instead of a temporary one with cooldown? makes no sense.

To me ZOE on VS maxes is a lot like the TR overcharge ability in PS1.

Overcharge was a use on demand ability that temporarily increased the rate of fire on the TR maxes to similar levels as if they were locked down.

I'm a little surprised VS maxes can have ZOE on the entire time, why cant it be use on demand with a cooldown? And certing into ZOE increases the duration or reduces the cooldown etc.

Timealude · 2013-05-24, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Fara

To me ZOE on VS maxes is a lot like the TR overcharge ability in PS1.

Overcharge was a use on demand ability that temporarily increased the rate of fire on the TR maxes to similar levels as if they were locked down.

I'm a little surprised VS maxes can have ZOE on the entire time, why cant it be use on demand with a cooldown? And certing into ZOE increases the duration or reduces the cooldown etc.

Then I think its only fair lockdown as well as the shield get a cooldown as well.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-05-24, 12:42 PM

I think zoe is fine. It does make us work harder to win and really I dont think thats bad either.

maradine · 2013-05-24, 12:59 PM

On Wednesday, I pulled ZOE and ran around slaughtering surprised infantry.

On Wednesday, my squad walked into a paired TR Lockdown field of fire and we were wiped from the map.

On Wednesday, a shielded Hacksaw forced its way up a crowded hallway with an entire squad moving up behind it. The were an unstoppable wave.

Everyone thinks they got the short end of the stick. That pleases me greatly.

Rbstr · 2013-05-24, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

Everyone thinks they got the short end of the stick. That pleases me greatly.

Someone in TS yesterday "Everything is OP now"

Cromation · 2013-05-24, 03:29 PM

It can be toggled off and on because so can the TRs lock down and the NCs shield. Neither of their special abilities has a timer so why should ours?

Saying the VS max runs to fast is crazy. Last night while running my ZOE MAX I kept up with sprinting team mates but def wouldnt say I was blowing past them.

TR Lockdown is great at long range and almost unstoppable when they have their back against the wall. Obviously a better defensive choice than the rest.

NC Shield Provides a shield and I take this in part to the NC complaining after the scat maxes got nerfd cause they said they were useless at range. Now you whip out your shield and close the gap. Or block doorways to cap points or other things. This happened last night and was very effective on Matherson.

VS Zoe is a solid middle ground. We can close distances in between easily and can move more nimbly. This is what VS is known for. TR Lockdown when in its prime use will destroy a ZOE. NC Shield used properly will destroy a ZOE. Anyone saying "On paper ZOE is obviously better and OP" I would like to see your paper with the statistics showing this. Do you not realize zoe only allows us to kill another infantry player in one less bullet but also wrecks our damage absorption tremendously?

Stop your crying and wait it out. I am sure it will all be nerfed soon enough including NC shield blocking doors and TR lockdown having such large increases in damn near everything firing related.

Maarvy · 2013-05-24, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Corvo

The alert on Miller just ended maybe half an hour before the servers went down. Man, I haven't seen that many VS maxes in a while! Seems like every VS was in a MAX suit in the Jaeger's Fist area.

Striker's inability to lock on to MAX units has rendered organized outfit platoons that would tear any attacking force to shreds absolutely useless against VS MAX rushes.

Now TR have to choose something other than the striker .

Oh noes the sky is falling in .

moosepoop · 2013-05-24, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Fara

To me ZOE on VS maxes is a lot like the TR overcharge ability in PS1.

Overcharge was a use on demand ability that temporarily increased the rate of fire on the TR maxes to similar levels as if they were locked down.

I'm a little surprised VS maxes can have ZOE on the entire time, why cant it be use on demand with a cooldown? And certing into ZOE increases the duration or reduces the cooldown etc.

i agree wit what u said. lockdown and aegis shield are defensive abilities. they dont let you chase infantry. ZOE lets vanu maxes chase down infantry.

MAX were balanced against infantry by being less mobile. the new TR and NC abilities give benefits at the expensive of mobility.

so far the hp penalty isnt enough to offset the extra mobility. either there needs to be a cooldown or there needs to be even higher hp penalty.

Sifer2 · 2013-05-24, 09:24 PM

I think it's imbalanced personally. It's the slow movement that balances the MAX unit in Infantry combat. Why? Because Infantry are themselves slowed down by the need to use Ironsights an stand still for accuracy. MAX's don't use Ironsights they fire on the move. But until now they move about as slow as an Infantry using Ironsights so it was balanced. A ZOE MAX is basically playing completely outside the rules. Running around essentially hip firing with perfect accuracy, while still being able to eat more lead than a HA. That's why the topic creator is correct. If your VS there is no reason to play any other class in close to mid range combat but MAX.

In comparison Lockdown, and the Aegis Shield are much more situational abilities. Lockdown being good mainly for defense against vehicles/air. Shield being good for MAX crashing. But what's funny is ZOE is good for both. Just rank 1 ZOE gives you the full movement which is great for general farming of enemy Infantry, and MAX crashing. Invest deeper to get the damage boost up if you want to be able to kill vehicles as well as a Lockdown MAX while getting to move around instead of be stationary like them.

It's simply the best new MAX ability by a large margin. And the VS know it which is why you see nothing but a horde of MAX's when you fight them. Just like once upon a time all you saw was a sea of Magriders.

Assist · 2013-05-25, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

so far the hp penalty isnt enough to offset the extra mobility. either there needs to be a cooldown or there needs to be even higher hp penalty.

Really? Have you tried it? ZOE Max has no chance against a Fracture max or Raven MAX, no matter if he's using Vortex's or Comet's. Engineer AV turret one shots a ZOE max. Decimator one shots a ZOE MAX. A MAX, that can be one shot, and you guys are up in arms over it being overpowered? lol. I'd love to know where their math is for the damage for ZOE MAX, because I get absolutely wrecked by any rockets and falling damage yet infantry damage seems not all that increased.

I really hate when people flip out over a change that they clearly haven't the slightest clue about. It's very very very very easy to kill a ZOE MAX.

moosepoop · 2013-05-25, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Assist

Really? Have you tried it? ZOE Max has no chance against a Fracture max or Raven MAX, no matter if he's using Vortex's or Comet's. Engineer AV turret one shots a ZOE max. Decimator one shots a ZOE MAX. A MAX, that can be one shot, and you guys are up in arms over it being overpowered? lol. I'd love to know where their math is for the damage for ZOE MAX, because I get absolutely wrecked by any rockets and falling damage yet infantry damage seems not all that increased.

I really hate when people flip out over a change that they clearly haven't the slightest clue about. It's very very very very easy to kill a ZOE MAX.

i have no problem fighting against ZOE max as a TR MAX, but as infantry i often get instakilled with no chance to retaliate. this gets worse with the obligatory decrease to framerates after every update. you have a good point that if you nerf the hp further it would be unbalanced agaisnt other maxes. so the best solution is to put the ability on cooldown.

the disadvantage of MAXes that allows infnatry to kill it is its lack of mobility. important fact to consider: jump jets were rejected by the devs because it would make the vanu MAX too mobile. TR lockdown can be countered by rushing behind the MAX. aegis shield can be countered by running away whle the shield is up. infantry cannot run away from a ZOE MAX, and that is a problem.

another imbalance is versus vehicles: maxes dont render at long range, their hp nerf is meaningless while gaining a hard damage boost.

like many people have said, TR and NC abilities are situational, ZOE is a permanent upgrade.

moosepoop · 2013-05-25, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Timealude

Then I think its only fair lockdown as well as the shield get a cooldown as well.

if ZOE doesnt give speed boost, but makes you unable to sprint, then you dont need a cooldown.

DeltaGun · 2013-05-25, 01:08 AM

ZOE or not, NC MAXs are still running around 1 and 2 shotting people in indoor fights. At least you don't have to deal with that crap.

moosepoop · 2013-05-25, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by DeltaGun

ZOE or not, NC MAXs are still running around 1 and 2 shotting people in indoor fights. At least you don't have to deal with that crap.

you can run away from NC max. ZOE max will chase you down. so its worse than nc max.

the damage buff itself was already good, i dont understand the thought behind the movement buff. the reason jump jets for VS maxes were rejected was because mobility makes a MAX too powerful.

im guessing SOE is trying to adress the low vanu player population. they proably will nerf the speed boost.

Rbstr · 2013-05-25, 01:16 AM

Yep, way worse than the Hacksaw's ability to instagib other Maxes.

Infantry still sprint faster than a ZOE max can run.
Comets still have to reload to take out an enemy max with direct hits.
Infantry die in one fewer bullet.
The ZOE max gets hit ~40% harder by everything.

It's not even a full blown taste of your own medicine.