My Dark Light Crusade - Page 4

Madcow · 2004-08-12, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Cauldron Borne

I want the range shortened, the stamina drain SLIGHTLY inceased, and a mandetory time period that you must keep the DLV on, like say....5 seconds... a lot can happen to you in five seconds on the battle field.

About these EMP guns: could I sneak up behind someone and use it to turn off their DLV?

Just one more coment about the Slient Run: has anyone noticed that if you use a rek around a Spit w/ SR on, the spit still spots you?

Sensor Shield is supposed to go down when you use a support item (MedApp, REK, BANK). It works as they intended. ACEs are buggy as hell, though. You can place the ACE without impacting Sensor Shield, so it feels like you're safe. Then if whatever you placed kills somebody (mine or spitfire) your Sensor Shield goes down and if you're in an interlink you're probably screwed. I haven't found the same issue with a boomer, but I rarely use a boomer in the field so I haven't experimented that much.

Oni- Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Let's say there's an implant, it doesn't take much stamina, has no real restrictions to it, but the implant has a 50% chance of instantly killing anybody wearing Rexo who is standing within 10 feet of you? If I ran around flickering that implant, would it just be a good habit or would it be weak? Dark Light is abused, as somebody has already mentioned in the thread. It isn't used if you suspect a cloaker around, I've been Dark Lighted in the middle of absolutely nowhere because people flicker it on no matter the situation. It is the definition of skill-less to run around flickering that implant.

Bloodstone · 2004-08-12, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Madcow

Oni- Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Let's say there's an implant, it doesn't take much stamina, has no real restrictions to it, but the implant has a 50% chance of instantly killing anybody wearing Rexo who is standing within 10 feet of you? If I ran around flickering that implant, would it just be a good habit or would it be weak? Dark Light is abused, as somebody has already mentioned in the thread. It isn't used if you suspect a cloaker around, I've been Dark Lighted in the middle of absolutely nowhere because people flicker it on no matter the situation. It is the definition of skill-less to run around flickering that implant.

Yes let's call it an Infilrator suit.

I never use 3rd person view so when I use darklight it is normally when guarding something, Checking for cloakers in CC/Spawns etc, or have noticed or been attacked by a cloaker. Even then if a cloaker has done his job right I will win only 1in4 or 1in3 times

If you lived in a combat zone where people could be invisible anywhere at any time and you had an implant to let you see them, it is only common sense that you would use it occasionly to check your immediate area for cloaked enemies. I have lost count of the times when I have been killed in the middle of no where by a cloaker. It has to work both ways.

I do agree however that when on foot 3rd person view should be removed completely even if DL is not on.

DL should have an increased stamina drain so you could not have it on indefinatly when still and should not be available while in vehicles.

Madcow · 2004-08-12, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bloodstone

Yes let's call it an Infilrator suit.

Riiiiiight. Those armorless bastards and all of their high powered weaponry must be stopped!

I never use 3rd person view so when I use darklight it is normally when guarding something, Checking for cloakers in CC/Spawns etc, or have noticed or been attacked by a cloaker. Even then if a cloaker has done his job right I will win only 1in4 or 1in3 times

I'm sorry, but if those are your odds after finding out a cloaker is there then I think the problem goes a bit beyond the usefulness of the implant.

If you lived in a combat zone where people could be invisible anywhere at any time and you had an implant to let you see them, it is only common sense that you would use it occasionly to check your immediate area for cloaked enemies. I have lost count of the times when I have been killed in the middle of no where by a cloaker. It has to work both ways.

It does work both ways. Which is why I'm not suggesting removal of the implant, but am suggesting consequences to use of the implant. And restrictions. The devs have talked about making Dark Light more of a 'cat and mouse' situation which is exactly what I'm suggesting. If you're going to use Dark Light, you should have to commit to it at the cost of viewing other things. That seems to be the original intent, which 'flickering' eliminated easily.

I do agree however that when on foot 3rd person view should be removed completely even if DL is not on.

Eh, that doesn't bother me much either way. Dark Light in 3rd person is the one that really bugs me.

DL should have an increased stamina drain so you could not have it on indefinatly when still and should not be available while in vehicles.

Yay, we agree on a portion!

Dharkbayne · 2004-08-12, 01:09 PM

Or, it doesn't drain stamina, but takes out 25 every time you turn it on, and stays on for 15 seconds. Which is WAY more than enough to kill a cloaker. With a beamer. On AP mode. At 250 meters.

KeviN · 2004-08-12, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Madcow

Lastly, no, the infiltration suit is not strictly for spec-ops. Good lord is that assumption annoying. I can only hope you squad up with a good infil some day and see exactly what they're capable of in different situations.

Skipped over two pages to quote this, but oh well.

I agree with you 100% on this. Players that make this assumption have clearly never stepped into an infil suit, except for the fisrt time BEP. I forget the exact numbers, but at close range the NC Scatter Pistol can drop an agile in little over a second. If that's not meant for combat, I don't know what is.

Doppler · 2004-08-12, 11:11 PM

People seem to forget that the prevalence of darklight was in response to the prevalence and tactical advantage of cloakers. Is it cheap, yes, should cloakers have a counter, maybe sensor blocker and being completely still, most likely, but as it stands darklight is designed to protect troops from cloakers, period. Maybe as a prestige medal you could make cloakers partialy immune to darklight, i dunno.

Cauldron Borne · 2004-08-12, 11:55 PM

We all agree that DLV was created to counter the cloaker, doppler. Thank you for restating half of this conversation....

What we're saying is that, in it's current state, DLV is doing it's job without any negative consequences, which we think sucks. DLV SHOULD spot cloakers. Yes. Duh. Move on.

NOW: To RESTATE the topic: DLV should have SOME SORT of negative consequence to make activating it an important choice with consequences in either way:
EXAMPLE: I think i saw something, lemme flicker dlv..oh there is the cloaker! BLAM! *turn off DLV* (Presant state)
I think I saw something... maybe it was nothing..i don't want to RISK turning on DLV because then i may get nailed in this fire fight, but then there might be a cloaker there, so i could be letting him get through... (what we WANT to happen...)

I still want a faster drain, shorter range, and mandetory 5 second activation minimum....

Doppler · 2004-08-13, 12:09 AM

Why? No other implant has such a downside, why should darklight.

Lartnev · 2004-08-13, 08:43 AM

Because Darklight is different to all other implants

Madcow · 2004-08-13, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Doppler

Why? No other implant has such a downside, why should darklight.

Because it is an implant designed specifically to allow you access to armorless targets with weak weapons. Because the downside (limited visibility) was built into the implant to begin with, but has been negated by the flickering of the player base. Because Dark Light as it currently exists is too good, I'm tired of seeing postings referring to it as the 'no-brainer' implant. Because the upside is too great. Even Personal Shield and Second Wind have much more downside when you get down to it, and those are very valuable implants.

ZAYZAY · 2004-08-16, 03:36 AM

This was idea was posted somewhere before but i think its a real good idea. They can have Darklight in tunnel vision. Like a little biggeth then ur CoF and that way you would have to do an a sweep in order to spot the cloacker.

U could also dodge his veiw that way.

Shryn · 2004-08-17, 11:59 AM

You could just have the jammer grenade stifle the darklight implant too. You could lob a jammer and book out, or circle around.

I don't use darklight myself, never have, simply because there's other implants I like and never had a slot I felt was worth using on darklight (though I didn't know they saw an ams!) Sucks to get knifed, but I kill more stealthers than kill me in my rexo, no doubt.
Still, I wouldn't put limits on darklight (though the 3d effect is whacked) I think it would be better to have ways of fighting it. (Like letting the jammer 'nade effect it.)

Cauldron Borne · 2004-08-17, 12:11 PM

The jammer DOES effect DLV...but the thing is, an Infl already has limited space, and often cannot spare that 3X3 block for a 2x2 jammer. I'd use them if I had a grenade slot so I could pull it out faster, but the thing is, those jammers take so long to pull out if you don't already have it out, that yer already dead. That and the flash bang of the jammer only alearts others to your presance.

Madcow · 2004-08-17, 12:37 PM

You want to see something really funny, Jammer a Lasher user. Unless you tossed from a pretty good distance you'll be eating dirt in moments. The Jammer is a very flawed counter measure to Dark Light.

Queensidecastle · 2004-08-17, 12:59 PM

I know I am waaaay late to this thread (sue me I just started back playing again) but I wanted to pipe in. While I agree with everything Madcow has said, nevertheless, Darklight causes me no trouble whatsoever when I am playing my cloaker. Partly this is because of my style of play and partly it is precisely why my style developed the way it has. I am a pure killer Infil. I will hack (and very often do) if I see an opportunity, but sneaking into bases to and towers to hack is not what I am about. It is about assassination and sabateuring. I think it would be great to apply myself to the true intended role of a cloaker, but sadly the game mechanics as Madcow has described them make this a lesser option.

You might agree with me when I say that Sony has been EXTREMELY unfriendly to cloaking in this game since launch and it appears only just recently addressed the cloaking/radar issue (THANK GOD sheesh) with sensor shield. Because of this I find it very unlikely they would make infiltrators even harder to kill, even when everything you said makes total sense. Getting killed by an infiltrator psycologically causes more anger than anything in the game (even snipers) It doesnt matter how open the individual was, it doesnt matter how incredibly the odds are stacked against cloakers, because when a person gets killed by something they cant see, it enrages them and they cry for nerfs. I killed a fresh MAX last night with a spiker and got a hate tell. Clearly this person felt that they should not be vulnerable to cloakers in a MAX suit. The only problem with that logic is the "you snooze, you lose" concept. It is not that it is unbalanced, or that there isnt a proper counter for that technique, rather people cant deal with players who use unorthodox strategies and instead cry for nerfs.

I wager that Sony would like to fix the cloaking bubble/DL problem and would/will when a solution becomes available, but I cant really see them tone down Darklight w/out also nerfing Infiltrators in some way