My Dark Light Crusade

Madcow · 2004-08-10, 06:56 PM

I despise Dark Light in it's current incarnation. I honestly believe it to be the least thought out and unbalanced of all of the implants which encourages players to rely less on skill and more on the crutch this is that implant. I am of course insanely biased because I mainly cloak, but I think these changes (some or all) would greatly enhance the game.

Dark Light should not be available in 3rd person view. Seriously. What kind of sense does this make? The fact that people can make 360 degree Dark Light sweeps without moving their mouse is absurd.

Dark Light should not be available while inside vehicles. If you're in a vehicle and you're overly concerned about a cloaker being nearby drive or fly away. I had Sensor Shield on the other night and a mosquito pilot knew I was in the area because I'd just mined his Prowler buddy to death while he was repairing. I made it out of the immediate vicinity before the Mossy arrived, and he began to sweep at almost ground level looking for me, very slowly until he found me and ran me through. A pilot hovering right off the ground searching for a ground troop? Stupidity. The game should not encourage situations in which somebody is able to play with nearly zero danger to themselves in a scenario in which they also stand to gain a reward.

Dark Light should not reveal AMS bubbles, ever. I don't believe it was ever an intended side effect to Dark Light and I think it detracts from the game. I hate Dark Light with a passion and I almost consider getting it just for this effect. Toss it.

Not only should Dark Light not reveal mines, it should blind you from them. You choose to use Dark Light, you choose to take chances where you're stepping. This is just another 'added benefit' that makes Dark Light too much.

Lastly, my crusade for a while now. Dark Light just doesn't have enough downside to it's use. Besides all the side benefits, you get the main benefit of revealing armorless foes who most likely aren't armed with anything that can take you down in time. The cost? Limited visibility (neglible due to 'flickering') and stamina drain (negligible due to 'flickering'). My proposal? Lock the implant. You turn on Dark Light, it stays on for 10 seconds. If you're running, your stamina obviously drains faster. You're stuck for 10 seconds with a limited field of view. In a firefight, it might be near suicide. If this is done, I guarantee people will be pretty damn sure a cloaker is around before they turn the implant on rather than flickering it in every random situation. Additionally, after it is used there should be a 'recharge' time of maybe 30 seconds. If you find a cloaker in that 10 seconds but don't blast them, your loss. You'd better hope you can keep them in your sights because DL just isn't available at the moment.

I have a hard time understanding why any of these would cause true issues with the player base, except those talentless hacks who are relying on those cheap kills anyhow. And piss those people off as far as I'm concerned.

Lartnev · 2004-08-10, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Madcow

Dark Light should not reveal AMS bubbles, ever. I don't believe it was ever an intended side effect to Dark Light and I think it detracts from the game. I hate Dark Light with a passion and I almost consider getting it just for this effect. Toss it.

Makes perfect sense to me. AMS cloaked, darklight detects cloaked things, darklight detects AMS bubbles.

As for the rest of the darklight stuff, I dunno. I think it's unfair to say that people use it for cheap kills. I feel vulnerable without darklight because I don't like the idea of people sneaking up on me and boomering me etc. It's not for cheap kills, but survival.

Now, having said that I do agree that darklight should have more downsides than it does, but the devs have said that an implant balance pass is a long way off so I guess it would do better to talk about it nearer such times.

However, I do have one crazy idea. So crazy it might just work. The crazy idea is that only cloakers can use darklight. Discuss

Madcow · 2004-08-10, 07:25 PM

Dark Light reveals cloaked things, true, but I still believe it's just too much to have it show AMS locations. The AMS is fragile enough as it is, it's not like it's impossible to find them without it (trust me, I jack them just about every play session and I refuse to use Dark Light). It's just too much.

If you think it's unfair to say that people use it for cheap kills, you probably haven't spent a lot of time in the infil suit. You can be the stealthiest mofo on the face of the earth, not stopping to stick a knife between anybody's ribs, and some jackass will 'flicker' not because of suspicion but because it has become a built-in part of their routine. Suddenly all of your skillful, patient hard work is down the tubes not because somebody is better than you, or smarter than you, but because they can use this implant without any down side and 'flicker' it in every situation. It sucks the skill right out of the game.

As for feeling vulnerable, without Dark Light I killed 3 cloakers the other night while playing. All of them were stationary when I got to them. I killed all 3 with my knife. I'm not saying that to brag, I'm saying that because Dark Light has become such a damn crutch. If you don't use Dark Light, you quickly pick out the movements that announce where a cloaker is. The suit is far from overpowered. Most ground troops have spammy type weapons anyhow and can certainly afford a few rounds in those scary corners if they don't want to use the implant.

How you can run around in Rexo, with HA, and feel proud of blasting a cloaker that you sighted with Dark Light is beyond me. They need to quit sucking the challenge out of the game, and I don't feel like waiting for the implant balance pass that was promised 6 months ago.

Lartnev · 2004-08-10, 07:42 PM

I never said I felt proud about killing a cloaker, and I know all about going stealthily through a base and suddenly some MAX or rexo git mows you down. I've even felt sorry for killing some cloakers given the right situation.

Most of the time I find AMSs without darklight (it's not exactly hard, just look at where people are coming from), I was just saying that it does make sense. It also technically makes sense for wraiths, the phantasm and mines since they're all cloaked things.

I'm glad you have the eyes of a hawk and can pick out moving cloakers and knife them without darklight. I don't have that luxary. Whilst I don't require darklight, I like to have it "just in case." You know "was that a cloaker who just ran past me or just a figment of my imagination." I like to be sure that I haven't just let a cloaker through who could, potentially, cause a few problems.

Now, could you please get it out of your head that everyone and anyone who uses darklight is skillless because it's not true, people do use darklight because it's a handy implant and not because they want to get cheap kills on vulnerable players. Otherwise you'll just end up with arguments like this one. That was all unnecessary, why? Because I agree with you. Darklight's advantages far outweigh its disadvantages and that needs to change.

Madcow · 2004-08-10, 09:12 PM

The only skill-less comments I made were about the people who I thought would have issues with my proposals. The talent-less hacks as I referred to them. I never said that was every player, and I'm not even sure where you got that from. What I have said is that the implant is a crutch (I still believe that to be true, I saw cloakers far less when I used Dark Light than I do since I've opted to not use the implant), and that the implant is used for cheap kills. Not by everybody, not all the time. The implant needs a detrimental effect beyond the superficial ones built into it.

I still believe that each of my ideas is well thought-out, and I certainly welcome opinions which differ from mine. I'm glad to see your AMS ideas, I don't think that my AMS explanation makes much sense (yours makes far more sense) but at the same time I feel like the AMS just needs a little more love. They just get popped too quickly, and that seems a minor fix to possibly keep them alive just a little longer.

By the way, the comment about being proud of blasting a cloaker wasn't aimed at you directly. I've noticed an increase in people that will send "Owned!" tells or the like after mowing me down with an MCG while standing there in Rexo and flickering Dark Light. That's not owned. You're supposed to win that match up. Hell, if you don't win that match up there's a distinct possibility you rode the short bus to school.

Lartnev · 2004-08-10, 09:23 PM

They'd say owned to killing people who are linkdead so I wouldn't worry about it

I think the reason AMSs get popped so quickly is probably because people are just getting a lot more used to where they get put and how to spot where they are. I mean Darklight helps, but really you have to know pretty much where they are already to know where to look.

Is my idea crazy?

Madcow · 2004-08-10, 11:01 PM

It's crazy and also nigh impossible to implement. I'm one of the few people that I know of in game who plays infil almost exclusively, but I still jump into agile when I'm in a vehicle often times so I can help repair. So would I have an implant that was just taking up space if I was in agile? I guess it would make Bio Labs a little more important, but it still seems a bit unwieldy to have a useless implant like that.

Cauldron Borne · 2004-08-10, 11:10 PM

Mines are not invisible, thus they should not be revealed through DLV.

I like the idea of a time delay on DLV. 10 sec mandetory on and 30 sec mandetory rest.

DLV from behind doesn't even make SENSE. it's an EYE implant...

the DLV range needs to be shortened, too in my opinion. You can see the cloaker from about 100 meters away. With DLV on i think you should only see stuff that is 10m away. Period. after that it all goes black.

My favorite way to piss off DLV users is to stand outside of their effective range and lob grenades or shoot them with a repeater. annoys the hell outta them.

STORY: a rexo walks by me and flickers dlv when his back it turned to me. he turns around and shoots me. Sends me a tell 'PWNED'. I send him one back 'you can't spell....OWNED!' I then proceed to knife kill him five times successivly....

EarlyDawn · 2004-08-10, 11:18 PM

I think darklight needs a new mechanic behind it. Something more fun. Prehaps, it takes a "snapshot" of the surrounding area, and displays it for you so you can see cloakers.

However, if any cloaker is crafty enough, he can get away while the implant recharges.

With this setup, offer two types of Darklight: We'll call them Darklight Red and Blue.

Darklight red has an "upwards" charge time. In otherwards, you have to wait 5 seconds to take the "snapshot" after you hit the button. The standard icon is displayed for anybody looking at you, but it's red. Immediately after the snapshot is taken, that icon fades. So any cloaker not looking at you while you waited to take it, may potentially not know.

Darklight blue is the opposite. It has a 10 second recharge time after the snapshot is taken, but there's no warning for anyone nearby. However, a blue darklight icon does persist until the recharge cycle is complete.

Red: Wait-to-use with warning, but faster overall. Possibly get the jump on a cloaker who dosen't know you're there.

Blue: No wait, and no warning, but longer recharge, and everyone can see when you can't use it (stabby stabby)

Thoughts? I also don't know if it should be a mutually exclusive implant, although I'd tend to say yes, I'd like input on that too.

[Edit: I should be a little clearer about what I mean by a snapshot. any cloaker caught in your FOV has the standard visability of a cloaker when you look at them with darklight. None of that 3rd person nonsense, just what's in your FOV.

However, if, say, that cloaker you caught in your darklight "flash", moved from the corner, you'd still see him, slightly faded in whatever state he was in when you flashed him. In otherwards, just what the implant caught at the time.

These ghosts fade over a period of 5 seconds for DLR, and a period of 10 for DLB]

Cauldron Borne · 2004-08-10, 11:34 PM

Yeah, and they could cost 20-25 stamina a shot, you could use both, but they would drain your stamina REALLY fast.

EarlyDawn · 2004-08-10, 11:40 PM

Yeah, gimme a bit and I'll think up the stamina costs per "flash" for each version. I don't think I'd like it crippilingly high, though. It will be hard enough to detect a cloaker if they know how to exploit the weaknesses of the version you're using.

[Edit: I think I'd also lock players down to only one version at a time, too. Otherwise it gets too complex. However, I STILL want input on this because I can see points for either.]

Baneblade · 2004-08-10, 11:54 PM

The 'skillful' cloakers can be seen by a DL user and never get caught.

It's only when you are in a crowd that it gets difficult.

mechaman · 2004-08-11, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Madcow

stamina drain (negligible due to 'flickering').

you can't just run around with darklight and flicker it without loseing stamia anymore. you will lose 1 stamino each time you flicker it. I know that doesn't sound like a lot but oh well

Madcow · 2004-08-11, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by mechaman

you can't just run around with darklight and flicker it without loseing stamia anymore. you will lose 1 stamino each time you flicker it. I know that doesn't sound like a lot but oh well

It doesn't sound like a lot because it isn't. I can't even believe you brought that up, that's the very definition of negligible.

Sobekus, I wouldn't say I'm the best cloaker out there. I would say I'm better than the majority I've seen. First of all, assuming the Dark Light bug doesn't happen (where they are using Dark Light but it's not actually registering on your screen), and that's a huge assumption since I'm getting the bug at least 50% of the time now, your chances of escape are almost exclusively dependent on whether or not there is a crowd AND how close the target is. If you want to say you can cut and run from an MCG user, or Cycler, or Pulsar then I'm calling bullshit on that one. If you have distance, sure. If they're close up you're dead 90% of the time.

MrCovertMan · 2004-08-11, 01:12 AM

Hell I hate darklight with a passion, but I don't wanna piss off 99.99999999% of the PS coomunity by messing with darklight.
Gimme my old-school instant cloaking, not this fading in and out crap, and i'll be happy.
Let me run with surge on whilst holding a pistol sized item, i'll be happy.

Now this is an idea I've toyed with. An EMP pistol. Like a Beamer that shoots out electronics and deployables. Has a 30m range, unlimited ammo (uses REK batteries), the emp effect lastes half that of an EMP grenade, and it only renders mines useless for the duration, rather then destroying them. Drawbacks? Limited range, announcing your presence, having to switch to another gun to finish off that darklighter who happened to miss you in his sweep, and taking up 1/4 of an infils damn inventory. Hell I'd love something like this.